Engine oil

[elanski]

Please could someone advise me.... What is considered the best engine oil for the Twincam engine?

I've tried searching but can't find a definitive answer.

Thanks in advance.

[cal44]

I don't know what you guys have over there but I use Brad Penn in the Porsche's, Boss 302 and the Lotus. If my facts are correct it has extra zinc............but, I ain't no expert.

Mike

[nebogipfel]

........ but can't find a definitive answer.

And you never will old chap

IMO The best oil was good old green Duckham's 20W/50 ....now sadly consigned to history.

FWIW I would advocate something like Comma Classic or Morris's Golden Film (both 20W/50) and change it regularly.

Others will advocate modern all singing synthetic this and Hyper that at horrendous prices

If my answer achieves nothing else I strongly suspect I have now opened the floodgates and you will get lots of opinions

[ardee_selby]

Have you seen this thread?

elan-f14/oil-change-t23701.html

The Millers oils were discussed and recommended at that time. Their nomenclature was a bit confusing, however.

The Millers site now show these:

CLASSIC PERFORMANCE 20w50
A higher performance mineral engine oil for classic petrol and diesel engines of primarily pre-1980 vehicles. The modern technology within this oil formulation ensures an oil which will meet ?period? performance requirements along with more up-to-date performance needs. API SJ/CE specification.

CLASSIC SPORT 20w50
Semi synthetic high quality engine oil formulated for discerning owners of high performance classic engines. The synthetic content provides superior cold flow characteristics, lower volatility, higher resistance to oxidation, higher film strength and a higher temperature capability than mineral oils. Formulated to the maximum viscosity within SAE 50 specifications.

CLASSIC HIGH PERFORMANCE 15w50
Fully synthetic classic oil formulated for primarily pre-1990 high performance engines which receive energetic use. Superb cold flow characteristics, high shear stability, low evaporation and very high film strength ensures this is the ultimate classic oil.

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive ... ne-oil.asp

HIH Cheers - Richard

EDIT: ZDDP, or lack of, has been discussed on the forum(s). Note Millers still state:
"Millers Oils classic oils contain the optimum amount of ZDDP (zinc) antiwear additive, ensuring maximum protection and performance for older engines and transmissions"

[quaybook]

I've used Valvoline VR1 20/50 Racing for years in my Twink and the Crossflow Ford in my trackday car and it is ideally suited to these engines. In particular it has the high Zinc Thiosulphate content required for our camshafts/followers.

Vernon

[JJDraper]

To try and avoid most of the controversy around which oil to use, I would answer the original query with a simple answer that the frequency of oil change is probably more important than the quality of the oil, to a point. Based on my experience with an oil temp gauge, I suspect that all twincs run their oil hot, making any mineral based oil struggle to last over 2,000miles, which is why some people assert synthetic is best. May be so, and that is what I tend to use (Millers semi-synth 20/50). Using synth, I push the oil changes to 5,000miles and have not suffered any accelerated wear, either on the bores or cams - headgasket gone recently yes, but limited engine wear. Given that the original block & oil circulation system was designed for an engine pushing out around 20bhp, is it any wonder that it runs a bit hot...

My twopennyworth!

Jeremy

[simonknee]

I've been using Valvoline VR1 Racing for a while now.
It is available through Europarts for about ?30 for 5 litres.
It's the correct 20/50 without being some budget junk.
I switched to this after some talk regarding the lack of zinc/ZDDP in modern oils.
A search on this forum for "zddp" will bring up more about this topic.

[69S4]

To try and avoid most of the controversy around which oil to use, I would answer the original query with a simple answer that the frequency of oil change is probably more important than the quality of the oil, to a point. Based on my experience with an oil temp gauge, I suspect that all twincs run their oil hot, making any mineral based oil struggle to last over 2,000miles, which is why some people assert synthetic is best. May be so, and that is what I tend to use (Millers semi-synth 20/50). Using synth, I push the oil changes to 5,000miles and have not suffered any accelerated wear, either on the bores or cams - headgasket gone recently yes, but limited engine wear. Given that the original block & oil circulation system was designed for an engine pushing out around 20bhp, is it any wonder that it runs a bit hot...

My twopennyworth!

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy

Before my main point which might take this thread slightly off track I'll mention that I've never put anything other than mineral oil in my S4 and for the last few years I've been using Halfords classic oil and changing it somewhere between 2000 and 3000 miles, depending on where I've been with the car (lots of short runs or more long journeys).

Re your oil temp comment, I also have an oil temp gauge in the car- for over 25yrs now and my experience is totally the opposite of yours. The readings I see are usually very low with 50- 55C being normal on a long run (on an A road, motorway etc). If I'm stuck in traffic or the car is having to work for a living (hill climbing in the Alps for example) then yes it does go up but I don't think I've ever seen more than around 110C on the dial. In contrast with my lifelong struggle to keep the water temp down I've often pondered whether I should try and do something to keep the oil temperature up. OK I've not investigated whether the gauge readings are accurate (and I'm never likely to now as I've just managed to break it!) and the sender is in the bottom of the sump so it's sitting in what's likely to be the coolest oil but sticking my hand on the sump after a long run suggests that the reading is roughly in the right region.

[JJDraper]

Hi Stuart, I was a little alarmed by the high temps shown and used some stick on indicators to check this out.

http://temperature-indicators.co.uk/aca ... abels.html

The gauge proved to be pretty accurate. I also have the sender in the sump plug, so we are probably measuring in the same area. I also use an electronic voltage stabiliser. It all helps. The high oil temp is only really seen on high speed runs and when the engine is working hard (mountains). Under normal commuting in winter it barely registers temperature until I hit the dual carriageway for a few miles. It takes at least 8 miles to get some heat into the oil. Water temp has always been stable, even with the oil showing maxed-out temperature (145C+). The recent fitment of an oil cooler with an 80C thermostat made no difference to the warm up regime, but on a trip to Matty's last weekend it stuck to a steady 80-90C at motorway speeds, another confirmation that the gauge is a fair representation of what is actually going on. Next stage is to use the strips on the diff!

So what oil to use? Perhaps I can go back to mineral oil now!

Jeremy
PS Even halfords own brand finest oil is around 20quid (usually for 4.5 litres), so Millers Semi Synth doesn't seem so expensive at 30quid. PPS I am also using Halfords classic 20/50 at the moment, as I usually do an oil change after 1000miles following a rebuild, and didn't want to waste the Millers!

[69S4]

Not quite sure why we should have such different experiences with what is essentially the same engine. My oil temp gauge is a non electric capillary type similar to the water temp but after a careless moment I managed to snap the tube off of the bulb so it'll have to be replaced. I'll probably go with an electrically powered replacement and out of interest get some rough calibration data before I fit it.

Back on the oil front, having just replaced my water pump as well I've used a cheap and cheerful 20/50 mineral oil as something to use for the first 50 -100 miles of settling down / setting up and then replace it with something better. This is what I got from Classic Oils in Aylesbury - http://classicoils.absolutewebhosting2.co.uk/Product-264/Classic-Oils-by-Manufacturer-Brand/Falcon-/Falcon-Harrier-20W50. I've had some longish discussions with the technical guy there (not all on oil for the Elan) and Millers Classic Sport is what he recommends. That's probably what I'll go with next unless this thread throws up something better.

[ardee_selby]

I was advised on here (elan-archive-f16/oil-cooler-t5396.html) that an oil cooler wasn't necessary for road use...so I removed it!

Is it now considered a desirable "mod"?

(Would I be correct in thinking TC Escorts had oil coolers as an OEM fitment?)

Cheers - Richard

[nebogipfel]

Back on the oil front, having just replaced my water pump as well I've used a cheap and cheerful 20/50 mineral oil as something to use for the first 50 -100 miles of settling down / setting up and then replace it with something better. This is what I got from Classic Oils in Aylesbury - http://classicoils.absolutewebhosting2.co.uk/Product-264/Classic-Oils-by-Manufacturer-Brand/Falcon-/Falcon-Harrier-20W50. I've had some longish discussions with the technical guy there (not all on oil for the Elan) and Millers Classic Sport is what he recommends. That's probably what I'll go with next unless this thread throws up something better.

I'd never heard of the Falcon 20W50 but that's a very good price (particularly the case price) on an API SF spec' oil (same spec' as GTX and the late great Duckhams). Looks like they also do Golden Film (API SF) at a decent price and I note they suggest it as an alternative to Duckhams.

Millers stuff always seems very expensive, there's probably a healthy margin on it.

[Robbie693]

I was advised on here (elan-archive-f16/oil-cooler-t5396.html) that an oil cooler wasn't necessary for road use...so I removed it!

Cheers - Richard

Me too!

Maybe I shouldn't have binned it then..!

Robbie

[rgh0]

Without a temperature gauge on the oil the easiest way to tell if your oil is getting overstressed is use the car as you would at it hardest on a hot day and then see what the oil pressure is at idle immediately after. If its down around 15 psi or less then your oil is getting to hot.

Put in a good quality 10/50 or 20/50 synthetic and try again if you were using a mineral oil.

If pressure is still low at idle after hard use then put on an oil cooler ( which I doubt will be needed for normal road maximum use)

If still to low put on a bigger oil cooler and /or go to Redline oil ( this is really only rquired for race only situations)

cheers
Rohan

[elanski]

Thank you all for the helpful advice and interesting discussion.

I've narrowed it down to a few oils that kept coming up so will compare prices and try one out. Probably the millers I think.

Cheers.