Donor Engine

[chriminator]

Hi All,
I am new to these forums, and the elan. My girlfriend has inherited her fathers 68 Elan +2 and it is basically a part restored rolling chassis. When i say part restored, it has been stripped, a few things painted, and thats as far as it got. The 1.6 engine is dead, and the pistons have ceased in. Rather than doing a rebuild, i want to opt for a newer donor engine, such as a toyota 3s-ge. I have heard of this engine conversion, but what i want to know, is wether it is a relatively easy swap (im guessing its an adapter plate, but will the box be good for this?) and wether the 3s-gte would also work.? Anyones advice would be greatly appreciated. Regards, chris

[cliveyboy]

Chris
Welcome to the forum.
If you do a search on this forum for ford zetec engine you will find information about the most popular non twin cam conversion.
The company that is involved in these conversions is called Spyder engineering

Clive

[chriminator]

Thanks for that clive. I was looking at their work previously and was impressed. I want to do this conversion myself to keep costs down, and as i have decent experience with the said engines, would prefer if it was one of them. regards, chris

[peterako]

Now...a VVti in an Elan

Would love to see the end results!

And I am sure Mr. Chapman WOULD approve

Peter

[gerrym]

Chris, my experience on this is related to the Zetec: having said that the engine cost itself is immaterial. Making a decent job of the installation / integration is far more time consuming and costly, so maybe keeping the twincam should not be dismissed out of hand.
Apart from the engine, the effort and expense of a full fibreglass body restoration and paintjob should not be underestimated. Even if you have lots of free time and suitable premises, tools and materials add up to a surprisingly high total. But then again, your inherited body might be in good repair. Overall good luck, just do your homework.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

An interesting choice of engine but quite a project to take on.
As previously advised, repairing the "Twink" would be cheaper & quicker in the long run.
In the "Pioneering days" I fitted a Zetec to my S4 Elan. I totally enjoyed doing the job but every little bit had to be sourced or made to make the job a good one.
The engine is the easiest bit of all. Exhaust system, cooling system, electrics, ancilliary drives, engine & g/box mounting, drive train & fuel system are some of the things that will need to be sorted & cost lots of money.
If you have a good machine shop & lots of "good contacts" it's a feasable idea, but as mentioned before it won't be cheaper than fixing the "Twink"
If you do take the proposed route I hope you wil keep us up to date on the project.

Good luck
John

[chriminator]

Thanks guys. I have access to most machinery including a stainless/allie welding setup. I have alot of parts for the engines, and I also have plenty of loom making kit. It is a big project, one of which I wont expect to get done for quite a few years, but it will be interesting for me to try. Does anyone know what torque/kw the standard +2 1.6 gearbox can take? regards, chris

[Elanintheforest]

Chris, the standard gearbox will take heaps. My Plus 2 has had a BDA fitted since 1971, and has covered 180k miles, with the BDA developing 170bhp. The only invoice I have for gearbox work in the time is for the layshaft and needle roller bearings. Remember that this box was used in Lotus Cortinas, Mexicos and RS1600 Escorts?more weight and usually highly abused.

If you?re doing serious competition work then maybe think about a straight cut / Quaife box, but this route makes the car horrible to use every day. I would guess 200bhp on a road car if you don?t do wild starts every time would be fine?but I don?t know what torque that relates to.

If you're going to use the car a lot when it's done, then a 5 speed is probably the way to go. Do a search on this forum for lots of info on lots of options.

More important is to get the diff output shafts beefed up...they will snap very easily with much more than standard power output.

Get the original block soaked in diesel and it will free pretty easily. If the head is good, you still have a valuable engine in the twincam.

Something to think about for the future. In previous posts a ballpark figure of ?7k -?10k has been given to put in a Zetec properly. A twink will cost ?3k to rebuild. A well restored original early plus 2 would be more desirable to most folks than a modified car done to an unknown standard (as far as the buyer is concerned). This doesn?t matter at all if the fun for you is building up a modified car then using it. But if you get bored during or at the end of the project, you may have to take a big hit to move it on.

You'll be building a car to personal taste, and that often isn't shared with many others!

Mark

[peterako]

On the Elan 5 speed box.

I seem to recall that this was really developed with the Type 75 Elite which started life with a 160bhp engine (and I would guess aspirations to have more power as time went on).

Useless trivia?

My +2 is still with its Lotus 5 speed box and it works well. (Not lightening quick but good).

Take care,
Peter

[john.p.clegg]

I'll second that,not exactly like a knife through butter...more like changing gear through a gearbox....and with due dilligence it can be improved.

John

[RotoFlexible]

A couple of months ago, an Elan with a Toyota engine was offered on ebay in Canada. I don't recall which engine and gearbox was used. However, the seller stated that Toyota developed the engine partly at Chapman's request to be a replacement for the Twin Cam. No idea if that claim has any basis in fact, but the installation looked tidy enough. It would be interesting to know more about that project, but at least it seems to be feasible.

[CBUEB1771]

I seem to recall that this was really developed with the Type 75 Elite which started life with a 160bhp engine (and I would guess aspirations to have more power as time went on).

The Lotus 5 speed based on Austin Maxi internals did move from the Elan and +2 to the latter Elite but it did not last long. Lotus quickly went to a Getrag box for the Elite/Eclat cars as more power and weight did not treat the Maxi-derived box at all well.

[CBUEB1771]

A couple of months ago, an Elan with a Toyota engine was offered on ebay in Canada. I don't recall which engine and gearbox was used. However, the seller stated that Toyota developed the engine partly at Chapman's request to be a replacement for the Twin Cam. No idea if that claim has any basis in fact, but the installation looked tidy enough. It would be interesting to know more about that project, but at least it seems to be feasible.

Hmmmm, as the Elan/+2/Europa production wound down Chapman was very much in the mode of going upscale with Lotus designed and manufactured engines and gearboxes. I should think that going to Toyota would not have happened until Lotus later decided that moving downscale was the better idea as evidenced by the M100 Elan. I would not think that a Toyota engined Elan (first generation, not M100) would have fit Chapman's thinking at the time. I welcome more informed and conflicting opinions. BTW, LotusElan.net is a great way to kill a couple of hours while stuck in a motel in Parsippany, New Jersey while on a business trip.

[aussieelan]

I should think that going to Toyota would not have happened until Lotus later decided that moving downscale was the better idea as evidenced by the M100 Elan. I would not think that a Toyota engined Elan (first generation, not M100) would have fit Chapman's thinking at the time. I welcome more informed and conflicting opinions.

From memory ... Lotus got invloved with Toyota in the late 70's/early 80's on a number of projects including the Totoyta Supra. I think the Excels shared gearbox, driveshafts, rear differential, wheels, and door handles with the Supra. Toyota was the major shareholder until GM bought Lotus in the late 80's.

All this kinda moot tho as the TC was long forgoten by this stage.

[richardcox_lotus]

Lotus did look at using a Toyota lump pre M100 times - same as in original MR2. There was a full-size styling buck presented to Chapman only a few months before he ded in '82. (There's a photo in, I believe, Chapman & his Cars by Jabby Crombac). It was an Oliver Winterbottom shape - low bonnet line; backbone chassis; & if memory serves a targa top.