Heater motor

[mikealdren]

I'm sure I've seen an article somewhere (here or in a magazine?) about rebuilding a +2 heater but I can't find it. I particularly remember it talking about the old foam padding clogging up the heater cores. Can anyone help please?

Also, there's an old note mentioning using a Fiesta heater motor to give more performance. Has anyone replaced the heater motor recently, mine's pretty old?

Thanks
Mike

[Dave_Newcastle]

I changed my motor some years ago and and for me, would think long and hard before doing it again if the motor stopped again - Its one of those jobs that takes far more time and risky for damage to the dash than the end result is worth unless you are rebuilding a car, or intend to replace the dash at the same time or drive the car loads in winter.

Steering column out - all dash out (carefully) - heater hoses were a heck of job to get off whole and back on under the bulkhead - you will probably end up cutting them off and replace with new ones anyhow.

My new motor was a similar size to original but mounts were in different position on the motor body, so had to make up some spacers to fit it.

My heater wasnt bunged up with silt on the water side or felt on the airside, though I remember there was some felt which sat around the heater box body. Performance with the new motor was the same as with the old before it had stopped working, ie moderate volume flow of fairly warm air and not as efficient as we are used to with modern cars.

Dave

[RotoFlexible]

Mike,

I have the heater out of my S2. Note, it's not a +2, and I don't know if the heaters are the same but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some commonality.

Getting it out was not an issue because I have the dash and everything behind it out of the car for restoration work. (Also, less stuff on an S2.) I had a little trouble getting the case apart, one screw needed persuasion. The motor comes right out at that point by undoing three bolts. There was a lot of junk wedged between the case and the matrix, along with the remains of foam strips that were probably supposed to keep the junk out of that space. I cleaned everything up and painted the case. The matrix appears to be in good shape and I just dropped it off at the rad. shop for flushing and testing/repair as needed.

The motor hasn't really worked well for decaces now - noisy, slow etc. I think it was partially lack of lubrication, partially junk sucked in from the plenum (lots of pine needles), and partially lack of current. However, it was not siezed. I removed the fan (spray with WD-40 or equiv.) without difficulty and removed the two bolts holding the motor halves together. The case came apart fairly easily; at this point, I was able to get light oil into both bearings. I didn't remove the rotor because the brushes seemed OK and I didn't want to disturb them.

Hooked up to a battery charger on the bench, the motor came up to speed slowly, as if the bearings and shaft were getting re-acquainted after a long absence. With the fan back in place, it drew about 3 amps and seemed pretty happy.

When the heater goes back in the car, it will have a cleaned-out matrix and a good supply of current (through a relay), so all should be well.

IIRC, the reference to a Fiesta was for the matrix, not the motor. Try searching for "Fiesta."

[mikealdren]

As always, replies make it obvious when I haven't been clear enough!

I am rebuilding the car and the body is completely stripped out so the heater is already on the bench. In fact, I've stripped it down and the fan broke as I took it off the motor shaft.

The heater core seems ok, not sure what benefits a Fiesta core would offer here.

The motor is not in great shape and I would happily replace it with a suitable alternative, especially if it offers better performance. I've found an earlier link talking about using a Fiesta motor but saying it needed alterations to the plenum. Gerry has used an Elan M100 motor, that sounds more promising.

The foam seals on the flaps have totally disintegrated (they had become hard and brittle). Has anyone replaced them? What foam has been used?
Also, there are some rubber seals on the flaps sides, again any experiences with rebuilding will gratefully followed.

Mike

[Frank Howard]

Also, there's an old note mentioning using a Fiesta heater motor to give more performance.

Mike,

If your definition of more performance is moving more air, then a modern motor and fan will give you more performance. But if your definition of more performance is moving more heat, a modern motor and fan will have little or no effect.

The heat output is determined primarily by the outside temperature and the temperature and flow of the water/antifreeze coming into the heater core. If you run a weak blower, it will not be able to remove the heat from the heater core as fast as the flow of hot water will be able to replenish it and as a result, you will get a slow stream of hot air from the heater. If you run a powerful blower, it will cool the core faster than the flow of hot water can replenish it and soon you will be getting a powerful stream of luke warm air from the heater. To get maximum heat, I usually run my heater without the fan at all if the car is in motion. The slow speed is used primarily at the beginning of the heating cycle or when the car is stationary. The fast speed is practically never used.

And by the way, these heaters were not designed to heat small interiors such as those in Elans. They were designed to heat the interiors of sedans and as a result, they are much larger than they need to be. Obviously, a heater specifically designed for a +2 would have left room for a standard radio!

[rdssdi]

I beleive the heater is a modified Ford Consul unit manufactured by Smiths. A new fan motor is available at Transport Heater http://www.thhs.co.uk/.

Bob
1969 Elan +2

[gerrym]

Mike,

I see this one has got our interest. Actually the limiting factor in reasonable driving in our damp British climate is often the adequacy or otherwise of the windscreen demisting system. In the Elan Plus 2 with its air mixing heater, there is a lot of air side resistance to be overcome to get the heated air (very hot, hot or warm as required) through the heater box with its flaps, up through the very small demister ducts and up through the small vents. Unlike most Bristish cars of the period, the Elan Plus 2 has a poorly ducted AXIAL fan. (Other British cars mainly used a centrifugal fan). If you look at the typical head curve of the axial fan, it has a pretty lousy characteristic in terms of coping with the added resistance. If you wish to check this, put the assembled heater on the bench, with all the internal seals and flaps replaced so it does'nt leak air, the cold air vent hoses connected up with the eyeball vents closed and set it into demisting mode. the fan speed with the original Smiths motor will noticable slow right down. The dribble of air is the limiting factor here. With a much more powerful fan motor, the fan speed stays up, the head (or pressure) developed by the fan stays up even in demisting mode and we have a system that works. Note you will need a decent heater resistor to cope with the increased current and provide some speed control.

Regards

Gerry

[Robbie693]

Mine seems to have plenty of heat, I just can't get to go in one direction - it comes out interior and screen at the same time (leaking seals probably).

The curious thing is though, moving the slider to hot whilst on the move makes the output cooler, in other words the temp slider is working backwards...

Can these cables be connected the wrong way around?

[Gordon Sauer]

While I've rebuilt my heater box with new foam rubber as needed and cut up bicycle tubes for the flaps, I may go to a full replacement similar to what all the old rodders are putting in. In US there is quite a market for custom made heater/fan/AC assemblies that are being bought to put in 40's hot rods to make them streetable in local climate. Was told by one of these places that heater/AC unit could easily replace the old Smiths box. At Log in Ft Worth this year stunning +2 driven from Virginia or so with Ztec motor, injection, GPS, DVD and central AC--he had even blanked off the plenum area in the glass forward of transmission tunnel to give more room for heater/AC unit--incredible job--AC, dry, air would really help with demisting. Gordon Sauer

[rdssdi]

I considered a replacement "VINTAGE AIR" Heater / AC unit. It would require using the z tech, as mentioned, as mounting a compressor on a TC is about impossible. The problem lies in the harmonic vibrations that could be created in adding a compresssor. The process requires a great deal of engineering if done properly. It could result in the nose of the crank breaking. Also, the TC front cover is rather unsuitable for the braketry. A europa may be different as the alternator is run from the "rear" of the engine. This might make adding a compresssor eeasier and less prone to vibration.

I rebuilt my heater using foam and sheet neoprene. My +2 came with one "damper" only. The temp control was moddified to operate a coolant valve as on the baby Elan and maany other Brit cars. I don't know if a PO or the dealer or the factory added this mod.

Bob

[Dave_Newcastle]

Robbie

Mine is the same - the hot label is to the right, cold to the left, though the opposite actually happens in practice. I tried to reroute the cables behind the dash but for some reason that I cant remember, it was not possible.

I came to the conclusion that the labels on the dash had been put on the wrong way around since the workshop manual shows the cold position to be to the right.

Which way is yours??

Dave

[Robbie693]

Hi Dave,

Sounds like yours is back to front, mine is Hot to the left as is all the others I have seen.

I was wondering how the cables attach and if it was conceivable that they had been attached the wrong way round?

[Gordon Sauer]

My +2 apparently came with AC --seems like it was being put on by some eastern/southeastern dealer--mine out of SouthCarolina and somebody from that area sold theirs about a year ago saying it had air--don't know if in practice anybody has had AC and experienced balance problems--drive these cars of mine about 250 miles a year. Gordon Sauer

[mikealdren]

Gordon,
Did you take any photos when you carried out the work? I'm putting in a Zetec engine so aircon is a possibility.

What type of foam did you use for the flaps. I'm looking for something that is closed cell and looks like it will last for a long time!

Mike

[Gordon Sauer]

The Zetec is not mine--maybe they are on the listserv, so I don't have pics. No pics of my heater box either--used foam rubber and bicycle tire rubber to replace old stuff. Also soaked motor bushings in hot oil until cool--spins better, and added two speed switch plate that was missing. Gordon Sauer