oil (grease) gun
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Post by: 106500 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:09 pm
From Brian Buckland's excellent book (which I've just bought from PM's) I gather that grease guns are not suitable for filling with oil to 'top up' the front suspension swivels on my baby Elan. I found this out when I got in a mess using my standard grease gun filled with gear oil! Can anyone suggest where I might aquire a more specialist 'oil gun'?
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Post by: rgh0 » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:52 am
Brian
Oil works just fine, so does a No2 consistency extreme pressure lithium based grease such as Castrol EPL2 . In my 31 years of Elan ownership I have newer had to replace a trunnion due to wear while using grease.
Basic lubrication theory says grease will work fine in the service and it does, it is also superior in keeping water contamination out of the joint given the rudimentary rubber seal and is much easier to change as it pushes the old grease out and replaces with new with plug flow.
Rohan
Oil works just fine, so does a No2 consistency extreme pressure lithium based grease such as Castrol EPL2 . In my 31 years of Elan ownership I have newer had to replace a trunnion due to wear while using grease.
Basic lubrication theory says grease will work fine in the service and it does, it is also superior in keeping water contamination out of the joint given the rudimentary rubber seal and is much easier to change as it pushes the old grease out and replaces with new with plug flow.
Rohan
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Post by: cliveyboy » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:09 am
I am with Rohan on this one.
If you use fresh grease and pump it through regularly you should have no problems. Its 30 year old crusty stuff that causes problems
I can see the logic of oil that it will permeate around the joint better and flow better in cold weather etc etc. Also if they say use engine oil its very specific and there is less risk of someone using high melting point grease or vasaline.
If anyone advises me to do something different my first question is always.. WHY?
Clive
If you use fresh grease and pump it through regularly you should have no problems. Its 30 year old crusty stuff that causes problems
I can see the logic of oil that it will permeate around the joint better and flow better in cold weather etc etc. Also if they say use engine oil its very specific and there is less risk of someone using high melting point grease or vasaline.
If anyone advises me to do something different my first question is always.. WHY?
Clive
1972 Elan Sprint FHC
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Post by: steveww » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:30 am
The front suspension is from a Triumph Herald and you will be pleased to know that there is the same debate on the Triumph forums over oil vs grease.
I am with Rohan on this one and have been using grease with out any problems. I think you will only get problems with grease if you forget to push through new stuff regularly. Very old grease can set like glue and cause all sort of problems. My S4 does about 3000 miles per year during the summer months and I grease the front suspension about 4 - 6 times each summer thus not giving the grease time to set.
I am with Rohan on this one and have been using grease with out any problems. I think you will only get problems with grease if you forget to push through new stuff regularly. Very old grease can set like glue and cause all sort of problems. My S4 does about 3000 miles per year during the summer months and I grease the front suspension about 4 - 6 times each summer thus not giving the grease time to set.
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Post by: gjz30075 » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:58 pm
Since 106500 already has a good answer to his question, I'll add some more points to the oil/grease debate. I was replacing my trunnions recently (about 2k miles ago) and decided to go the oil route for the reasons clivey came up with but found, over time, the trunnions leaked! And I was using 80/90W gear oil. I took them off, cleaned them up and epoxied the bottoms but they still seeped. The trunnions were Stanpart parts so I don't suspect a defect but I see an omen here...... Back to grease!
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Post by: kevin » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:38 pm
Prior to acquiring my +2, I used to have a Triumph Spitfire.
I had a front upright shear on the Spitfire whilst travelling at relatively low speed around a corner. I never found out the real cause of the break, but on inspection the grease around the remaining thread of the upright and in the trunnion had 'caked' into a thick, sticky mess.
Since that day, I've always lubricated the trunnions with gear oil using a small toolkit grease gun I bought at Halfrauds. I don't think that it matters if you use grease or oil, provided that you are confident that whatever you are putting in is getting all the way around the threads.
Kevin
I had a front upright shear on the Spitfire whilst travelling at relatively low speed around a corner. I never found out the real cause of the break, but on inspection the grease around the remaining thread of the upright and in the trunnion had 'caked' into a thick, sticky mess.
Since that day, I've always lubricated the trunnions with gear oil using a small toolkit grease gun I bought at Halfrauds. I don't think that it matters if you use grease or oil, provided that you are confident that whatever you are putting in is getting all the way around the threads.
Kevin
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Post by: cliveyboy » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:59 am
Your local industrial tool supplier in the yellow pages will have them.
Alternatively
Buck and Hickman http://www.bhinone.com have several varieties.
Make sure you have a flexible spout and preferably one that is interchangable, that way you can screw in a grease gun spout so it pushes onto your grease nipples and you can pump the oil in under pressure.
Clive
Alternatively
Buck and Hickman http://www.bhinone.com have several varieties.
Make sure you have a flexible spout and preferably one that is interchangable, that way you can screw in a grease gun spout so it pushes onto your grease nipples and you can pump the oil in under pressure.
Clive
1972 Elan Sprint FHC
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Post by: rgh0 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:34 am
Hi Kevin
It is almost certain your Spitfire upright trunnion thread did not shear due to the type of lubrication. I have seen a few of these failures and all have been due to an impact ( eg hitting a kerb) bending the upright thread just above where it screws into the trunnion resulting in a crack forming that then progresses due to fatigue until failure.
Lack of lubrication results in wear of the thread and slop in the trunnion but never shearing.
regards
Rohan
It is almost certain your Spitfire upright trunnion thread did not shear due to the type of lubrication. I have seen a few of these failures and all have been due to an impact ( eg hitting a kerb) bending the upright thread just above where it screws into the trunnion resulting in a crack forming that then progresses due to fatigue until failure.
Lack of lubrication results in wear of the thread and slop in the trunnion but never shearing.
regards
Rohan
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