Lotus Elan

Wiper concern

PostPost by: diablo » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:47 am

In France , we shall be under lockdown next Friday ; I want to use this time for a wiper job . During the first lockdown ( March/april ) , I did several minor jobs ; put 4 new electric sockets in my garage , synchronise the 6 Webers on my Daytona , change the carpet and the head gasket on my Minor traveler , put a new coil on my XK 140 ( the old one was on the car when I bought the car 37 years ago ) , take the fucking ABS system out of my bike ( BMW R1150 ) ; but that was nothing compare to what await me on my Elan . The wiper has failed . As it is LHD , I am afraid I have to remove the dashboard to reach this motor . Any tips to check the motor without removing the dash ? Any tips for the dash removal ? Where is the multi connector between the interior and the engine bay ?
Thanks for your help
diablo
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: billmoore42 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:16 pm

On my 67 Elan S3, I had to remove the dash to replace the heater core. Be sure to unscrew the wiper switch and remove it before taking out the dash, as you can bend it trying to angle the dash out.Also remove the glovebox and steering column, as well as the center console.

Before doing all this work, I would remove the wiper switch and check to make sure it is not a simple switch problem. Also, I believe if you take out the drivers seat, you can access the motor enough to check its grounding, and if the switch checks out, as a check on the wiring harness, apply twelve volts to the motor wiring, which you might be able to do by reaching under the drivers side on your back with the seat out.
1967 Lotus Elan FHC Spyder Chassis
1972 MGB (since 1975)
billmoore42
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 12 Apr 2018
Location: Northern California

PostPost by: bitsobrits » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 pm

As I recall, the motor assembly is behind the glovebox, and a dash removal is not required. It's been awhile since I've done this job, so my memory may not be 100%. You should be able to remove the motor fairly easily to do a bench check. The grease in them gets very hard after a few decades, so that is one thing to look for. Also ensure the drive shaft to the two wipers turns freely with the motor removed. I have had two wiper 'wheelboxes' on two different cars freeze up due to corrosion/lack of lubrication. Removing them (which is a right PITA) and cleaning/lubricating had them back in working order.

Your question about the multi connector for the engine loom is funny. Lotus (in the '60s) would never make it that easy...
Steve

Elan S1 1963-Bourne bodied
Elan S3 1967 FHC pre airflow

Formerly:
Elan S1 1964
Elan S3 1966 FHC pre airflow
Elan S3 1967 FHC airflow
Elan S4 1969 FHC
Europa S2 1970
Esprit S2 1979
bitsobrits
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 294
Joined: 27 Apr 2011
Location: Omaha, NE area

PostPost by: lotusfan » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:30 pm

bitsobrits wrote:As I recall, the motor assembly is behind the glovebox,


That is the case on a RHD car but presumably behind the rev counter and speedo on a LHD car.

Diabalo does not tell us which car he has but certainly Sprints and maybe S4's had a multi connector very close to the wiper motor.
Mike
72 Sprint DHC
User avatar
lotusfan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 317
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: S Bucks, UK

PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:58 pm

diablo wrote:...... The wiper has failed . As it is LHD , I am afraid I have to remove the dashboard to reach this motor . Any tips to check the motor without removing the dash ? Any tips for the dash removal ? Where is the multi connector between the interior and the engine bay ?
Thanks for your help


As it is a LHD car....You may be able to get the wiper motor out without removing the dash as the wiper motor is more forward than anything ese. particularly if you disconnect the drive mechanism (aka rack) from the motor prior to removal.

The multi-connector is to the right of the wiper motor. let me hunt for a picture....
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:05 pm

bitsobrits wrote:As I recall, the motor assembly is behind the glovebox...


Not on a LHD car it isn't....

bitsobrits wrote:Your question about the multi connector for the engine loom is funny. Lotus (in the '60s) would never make it that easy...


Late S4s & Sprints do in fact have a 12 way multi-pin connector.

In this picture (dash removed) you can see the wiper motor & the multipin connector:
MainHarnessConnector_LotusFan.JPG and
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:11 pm

billmoore42 wrote:Before doing all this work, I would remove the wiper switch and check to make sure it is not a simple switch problem. Also, I believe if you take out the drivers seat, you can access the motor enough to check its grounding, and if the switch checks out, as a check on the wiring harness, apply twelve volts to the motor wiring, which you might be able to do by reaching under the drivers side on your back with the seat out.


Great idea to check the wiring before you pull the motor. I summarized the wiring in the attached, pullingthe wiring diagram from another posting here...
WiperSwitchMotor_logic.pdf
(418.07 KiB) Downloaded 36 times
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:16 pm

This is the best picture I have of the Wiper motor with Dash in place:
IMG_0552.JPG and
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

PostPost by: miked » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:45 pm

+1 on the tight spindles in the wheel boxes. Just sorted some, unbelievably tight. Also friction in the tubes being bent between the motor and wheel boxes. Nasty old grease in motor and tubes.
Also dry armature bearing in the motor. All add up to load up the motor and rob power.
I build the whole assembly and run on the bench. Note the current in each speed and then put back in the car. Even installing back in skew wiff can add load. Worth playing about to minimise loading running light.
You can buy the wiper motor plug and wire a switch in to run both speeds direct from the battery with a made up harness. Don't need to worry about park circut brake while testing. Put multimeter in and monitor loading. All this before plugging in the car feed. Worth the effort to get speedy strong wipers.
Supply voltage and good connects being essential.
Voltdrop on sh*tty conections can cause havoc. Thats why i like proving on a separate supply. Rules out other wiring and switch.
Cheers Mike
Mike

Elan S4 Zetec
BSA B33
Suzuki Hustler T250
BMW rninet scrambler
Suzuki TC120R trailcat
Suzuki TC120 trailcat
Suzuki K11 super sport
User avatar
miked
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1205
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Location: Northwest UK

PostPost by: diablo » Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:58 am

Thank you very much for your answers ; i must confess these answers do not bring me the miracle solution I expected to do it easily but thanks again . Sorry I forgot to mention my car is a S4 , import from USA . My question about the multiconnector was to see if it is possible to take of the dash with all its wiring in situ , still connected to the different instruments and switches , this should have given the opportunity to do a better wiring route between the different instruments , with the wires correctly positionned close to the rear face of the dash .
diablo
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: pharriso » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:03 pm

diablo wrote:My question about the multiconnector was to see if it is possible to take of the dash with all its wiring in situ , still connected to the different instruments and switches , this should have given the opportunity to do a better wiring route between the different instruments , with the wires correctly positionned close to the rear face of the dash .


Absolutely, that's what I did last winter:
IMG_0265.JPG and

IMG_0429.JPG and
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

PostPost by: David1953 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:24 pm

another +1 for cleaning the wheel boxes.
If the dash is out remove all the wiper mechanism and free / lubricate it. Not easy to get out, but well worth it.
I had to put my wheel box in a jar of white spirit for days before it was properly free.
David1953
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 42
Joined: 10 Apr 2018
Location: Wiltshire, England

PostPost by: diablo » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:00 am

Hi you all
Phariso , thank you for the photo ; another one after your "rewiring" should have been a great help . Please tell me what other connections apart from the heater , choke , water and oil sender you have disconnect ?
diablo
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: diablo » Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:10 am

I have fixed my wiper problem , with your help ,thanks . At first , I checked the 5 position connector ; it seems OK , one blade permanently feeded when ign on , 2 blades feeded when switched position 1 and 2 . I only did not check the black wire blade ( supposed to be grounded , I discover it later ) . I took he motor out of the car ; not too much difficult when I discover it was possible to get it of with the drive cable still with it . I opened the wheel box , the grease was a little bit thick but still useable . i cleaned . I checked the motor , using the body as negative ; no work , I opened the motor , brushes and all internal was clean and looked good . I checked now with a wire from one of the unfeeded blades to the negative of the testing battery ; it works ! Go back to the car , connect the motor to the connector , switch on the wiper , no work ; follow the black wire from the connector to the place where it is supposed to be grounded ; the grounded was not effective ! Move it to another grounded point , it works fine . One more time , I tried to source the fault by beginning with the most difficult cause ( here , the motor ) when it was a minor trouble ; and , as often on the Elan , a bad grounded connection . One more time , thank you for your help .
diablo
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:21 am

Congratulations!! :D

I find more tjhan 50% of the time that my electrical issues are bad grounds.... :roll:
Phil Harrison
1972 Elan Sprint 0260K
User avatar
pharriso
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Location: Long Island NY, USA

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests