Lotus Elan

Car won't start no spark

PostPost by: Chris5360 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:55 pm

Ok so I'm getting right to the end of my putting my elan plus two back together, I can't seam to get a spark at the moment though I have put a new coil on, and even tried bypassing the green and red wire, in case the anti theft thing had something to do with it, I appear on a multi meter to get ally eh roghtresistances theoughg he leads, and the coil but still no spark or start, the wires I have tried in original style and bypassed, I have tried swapping pints and condenser out for electronic and have power going to and from as should be , totally got me fixed now :(
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PostPost by: p.faurie » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:40 pm

Hi Chris, if you have 12v when cranking at the coil I suggest you pull out the King lead from the dizzy cap rest it near metal see if that sparks, if it does check rotor/ cap,if it doesn't check the dizzy is turning
Good luck
Phil
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PostPost by: Chris5360 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:45 am

Didn't think about the dizzy not turning, strange through I couldn't get a spark from the main lead when cranking, but it showed the right resistance on a multimeter, frustrating because as soon as she's acctually started I can drive her again, as she had lot last December :) and was driving perfectly up until 2ndweek of January when I took her off the road
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PostPost by: Chris5360 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:31 am

Mind you if I have nothing coming out the top of the coil, and have tried a few different leads, but the cool is new, and I have power getting to the coil then it kinda has me foxed
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:11 am

Chris,
I am hesitant to say this, but are you aware that having 12 volts on the coil does not produce a spark.
it is stopping the flow of DC current through the coil by the distributor turning and opening the points on the earthy side of the coil that produces the spark.
If you take out the plugs and turn the engine with a spanner on the crank pulley, the voltage on the wire from the coil to the distributor should be switching from zero volts when the points are closed to 12 volts when open.
I apologise again if I am trying to teach my grandmother new tricks.
Eric in Burnley
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PostPost by: Craven » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:27 am

I think he?s running electronic ignition
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:52 pm

Is your new coil grounded (earthed) to the frame? It needs to be!

Roger
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:08 pm

I don't think the body of the Coil needs to be earthed. On my Elan Sprint there is an earth braid from Coil bracket to Oil Pump screw. On my 3 TVRs the Coil bodies are not earth, no problem.
The TVRs run very well so on my i think it's not needed.
For me the Coil body is earthed so radio suppressor works properly, only that.
Alan
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PostPost by: Chris5360 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:48 pm

I did try earthing the coil body but no change, does the distributed need to be earthed, although I did try that too, I'm a little bit stumped to the point that I feel like just getting one of these off the shelf kits and switching he lot, it's frustrating as I just cannot seam to get to the bottom of it and it is litreraly the end of the project once it's started !
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:10 am

Troubleshooting ignition problems is a systematic process to verify each item of equipment in the low voltage and then high voltage circuits is working and if not where the problem is.

The basic checks i would do it in the order below assuming using points ignition without ballast resistor coil. Electronic ignition and ballast coil systems add complexity. Depending on which step you find the problem can add more complexity to solve it but it can generally be solved with basic tools and the 4 basic trouble shooting steps in 99% of cases. Once you get a spark at the plugs and you can get it running then you may have further problems with misfire or lack of power and solving these are a different set of tests.

1. Measure supply voltage at the coil with ignition on and then while cranking - it should be around 12.4V with ignition on and not drop below around 10 volts when cranking. if you dont have that then some fault in the power supply to the coil. Hook up a temporary direct connection to the coil from a known good 12V supply and see if the car starts.

2. If you have good supply and still no go then check the lead from coil to points and the points themselves with the points open you should have 12 volts at the negative ( dizzy ) terminal of the coil and close to zero volts with the points closed. If always 12 then you have a broken wire or bad points so the coil is not being earthed with the points closed. If always zero then you have a bad coil or the points are not opening or a bad connection in the dizzy points wiring that is always earthed.

3. If all that is working ok then you should be able to get a high voltage spark out of the coil by removing the centre lead from the dizzy and holding it close to earth as the engine is cranked. Check the centre lead resistance to ensure it has not broken internally if you cant get a spark but the low voltage side is working OK per the steps above then replace the coil

4. If spark from centre lead to dizzy but not at the plug leads ensure the cap, and rotor is in good condition with the high voltage leads properly fixed in place, the centre carbon spring loaded contact to the rotor in place and making contact and the rotor not cracked or damaged and the rotor and cap in place correctly so they line up properly. If still no spark at all the plugs I would replace the dizzy cap leads and rotor.


cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:49 am

+1
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PostPost by: Chris5360 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:07 am

Ok like like I found the problem, basically had no spark with points so put in a old stock electronic ignition, still no spark

Decided to try the points again still no spark but power running into them!

Turned out the wire when it acctually got to the points was crimped onto the insulation! Strange because I haven't touched them, and the car ran in December on the same untouched distributer and points
Just waiting for a set of gauges to set them up and then hopefully vroom
Thank you to everyone for your help
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:51 pm

When i fit spades or bullets i crimp + solder (belt + braces) :wink:
Alan
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PostPost by: Chris5360 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:04 pm

This was at the crimp where the points come from the factory and usually aren't touched, not the bits that join outside of the distributer, that's what had me confused with it, never had that before, little bit random
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:37 pm

That wire has to be highly flexible and as immune as possible to fatigue fracture as the points are opening and closing at 2x6500 times per minute at max revs (?).

So it's not really surprising if the wire inside the insulation eventually fractures.


<later>

The movement described is not correct , see later message.
Last edited by billwill on Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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