Hi Torque Starter question

[gearbox]

Just picked up one of these gear reduction starters and it seems like there are a couple of choices they leave up to owner to figure out. It came with two different adapters, one of which can be mounted 360 degrees around and the other in 6 different positions. So a bit confused, and needless to say, getting these starters in and out of our cars is a bit of a struggle. I figured out that the 6 position adapter is the one to use, but what is the installed orientation? Does the motor (round part) face up, down, or sideways? Pictures of installed starters would be greatly appreciated, Thanks Allan

[oldchieft]

Your motor has no nose cone so orientation is pretty much up to you.

cone type

The method is along these lines, take the old motor off, offer up the adapter and see if the holes line up. If not use the slotted one.

adapter

If you had a nose cone you would need to position correctly to clear the ring gear. Place the starter in place on the adapter, turn it till the cone touches and mark it and the adapter. Turn the starter till it touches the other way and make another mark on the starter.

Marker

Take the adapter off the engine and fit it to the motor so the adapter mark is between the two marks on the motor.

fitted

The same procedure applies to you except you just mark the range that you can get the starter to clear its surroundings and pick a hole within that range.

Then you fit it and forget it.

nice

Jon the Chief

[alan]

i would use only the adapter plate that has holes to attach to bellhousing. This way you can fit good spring washers to stop the screws coming loose

[Grizzly]

How do you find the starter? I have always thought the stock starter is a little light weight for the high compression engine, be really interested to hear what you think of it.

[pharriso]

Alan, this is a picture of my (spare) Gustafson starter:

The solenoid should be at 4-5 O'clock when looking straight on to the mounting flange.

Not sure why this forum rotate's images!

[gearbox]

How do you find the starter? I have always thought the stock starter is a little light weight for the high compression engine, be really interested to hear what you think of it.

During the 60's all of my Formula Fords used these Lucas starters, and while I believe you can get them to perform well with a good fresh rebuild, we had issues when it got hot or sat over the winter. When these gear reduction starters were made available, everyone I knew converted over, as they were a install and forget item. Never had a starter failure after that and no maintaince of having to go through it each year. I read all the posts about these starters on the forum and it seems to be the way to go. Plus I believe these starters are lighter as well. I just finished installing a 45 amp Nippon Denso alternator that I saw on Leno's car and that thing is tiny. At this point in my life, I like things to work reliably even after sitting for 3 months or what ever the weather, especially after pouring so much time and effort into the rebuild. I am also tossing around the idea of a Weber electronic fuel injection system. So in for a pound.

[gearbox]

Thanks for all the replies, but I think what I am trying to get at would be the correct or most effective way of mounting this starter. The adapter with the 6 positions, 3 on each side and 180 degrees, seems like the one to use as the other one with the open bolt slots interfers with the bell housing bolt.

From what I am seeing, it should be mounted either with the motor up or down. With the motor up, it looks tight as the motor may not clear the block. But with that said, the drain pipe on the motor faces down which I believe to be correct. And the Positive lead is up next to the oil pan and less accessable.

The other option is having the Motor down, this clears the block completely, and the positive wire is on top near the frame (easier to get to) but the drain pipe in now facing upwards.

Not sure which is correct, any help? Thanks Allan

[oldchieft]

Will the cover with the drain turn through 180 degree?

Its not nice taking new things apart, but if you get over that it is worth a try?

Jon the Chief

[gearbox]

LOL, it's never easy. You figure you pay hundreds of dollars for Lotus Elan Specific parts, it should be close to plug and play. First was the DB cartridge water pump and now the starter. OK, after trying all 6 configurations, it will only fit one way, with the motor down and positive near the frame. It was impossible to fit it with the motor up (drain tube down) and the casing with the drain tube cannot be turned 180 degrees as one side has electrical connections. But now here is the rub, in the only way this starter can be configured, you cannot get the starter bolt on the bottom of the bell in. Actually, you can't use a bolt at all. Even after disassembling the adapter plate so you can insert the 3/8-16 x 1 bolt, the hex head flat leans right up against the starter and doesn't turn. The flat hits a solid aluminum milled part on the starter, so you would think a nicely milled pocket to clear a hex bolt would have been nice, but no. I'm thinking an Allen bolt (Recessed Hex bolt) might work, but not sure if I will have an angle or space to get a Allen key on there. Otherwise, I will have to completely dismantle the starter and start milling away. Sigh. But the good news is that the top mounting bolt that everyone complains about accessing is wide open. It's Saturday night and don't think Home Depot has the Allen, so I'll search tomorrow morning, and if not, it's Mcmaster Carr on Monday. In the meanwhile, if there is something I'm not seeing or completely missing here, please let me know before I start milling up this starter. Thanks Allan

[oldchieft]

Oh dear!
What make is the starter?

Mine is the slim line Powerlite 800 type.

http://www.powerlite-units.com/products/rac800/

The gear reduction is sun and planet so the whole thing is smaller then the old inertia type.

Plus they make them 6 mile from my house and I got trade price.

Jon the Chief

[StressCraxx]

I have a similar Denso starter on my Elan and on my Formula Ford. They work really well, but yes, fit can be a challenge.

I had fit problems with the upper bolt on the FF. I used a 3/8"NC x 3/4" header bolt for a Chevy. The head is 7/16" The head is 7/16" with a 1/2" dia. shoulder. Your adapter is a bit thicker, so you may need a longer one.
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Transdapt/Header_Bolt/T374025.html Loctite is your friend. There are also 12pt ones with lockwire holes on the Summit and Jegs pages.

I also used a distributor cap plug wire cover to insulate the battery + cable and a piece of trimmed fuel hose over the solenoid wire. That way if a starter bolt comes loose, the positive cable doesn't become a welder on the pan or frame.

[john.p.clegg]

I'll have to second what Jon said,there's not a lot of room to play down there and the added bulk of a solenoid doesn't help....the powerlite 802 is smaller/lighter than the lucas and has a nose-cone to help take the stress...can't say much for its operation yet as in the middle of winter rebuild..

Good Luck

John

[gearbox]

I had fit problems with the upper bolt on the FF. I used a 3/8"NC x 3/4" header bolt for a Chevy. The head is 7/16" The head is 7/16" with a 1/2" dia. shoulder. Your adapter is a bit thicker, so you may need a longer one.

Thanks, I completely forgotten about those bolts. I think I have seen them at the local Pepboys with both the smaller hex head and a Allen recessed hex in the same bolt. Much easier to get than a Allen head bolt on Sunday. Thanks Allan

[AHM]

I know this isn't helpful!

But reading threads like this make me more convinced to stick with the Lucas starter.

I have no problems fitting it!
Cheap and easy to replace.
When I get to the stage that I don't want to do it myself, I will have saved enough to pay someone else to do it at least twice.

[gearbox]

I know this isn't helpful!

But reading threads like this make me more convinced to stick with the Lucas starter.

I have no problems fitting it!
Cheap and easy to replace.
When I get to the stage that I don't want to do it myself, I will have saved enough to pay someone else to do it at least twice.

LOL, You may be on to something I guess I am going through the excersise of attempting to build a bullet proof Elan, or the best alternative to all the known problems that would result in either catostrophic failure, unexpected failure leaving you stranded at the worst time or place, or failures that are a real PITA to repair down the road. The water pump is one of those repairs, so I bought a DB cassette water pump chest, but had issues with alinging the pulleys so I made a 0.125" spacer for the crank. The rotoflex dounuts was another area of failure, so instead of buying a set, I went old school and made them from used VW Bug axles and brand new GNK CV's, and installed the TTR rear Koni's with limited droop. The generator was replaced with a Nissian Denso mini 45 amp, and soon as I source out the bolts I need, The gear reduction starter will be installed. From working on these cars for more than 40 years, I understand the ways of Lucas. They work great when correctly rebuilt, but let them sit a bit or put them through some stress, they tend to fail more times than not. And sure, anything can fail, even these new modern devices, but I have to believe they are much more robust and so much easier to replace when the time comes. I have no issues with fabricating parts, like what I did in making the CV's, installing the alternator, and the Spitfire aluminum radiator. After all, I spent 1/4 of the price from off the shelf parts. But when these other parts have been around for decades and not cheap, you would have to believe that they would have figured out all the bugs at this point. More like plug and play, rather than turning out spacers or finding that special bolt to install the item. But I guess this is what these forums are all about lol. So are there any other mods that I have missed? I'm thinking fuel injection.....