Lotus Elan

Headlamp flasher ??????

PostPost by: Jason1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi

I have spent a few hours trying to sort out the PO relay wiring. It's a real mess with extra relays that I have no idea what they do.

I have found 2 black/red wires taped together next to the dynamo which looking at the wiring diagram must be for the headlamp flasher. My question is what is a headlamp flasher and what does it look like? It only has 2 wires so is not a relay.

Wiring diagram attached with the mystery item shown as a circle at the end of the red line.

These wires look melted so I need to look at them and replace but as I cannot remember ever flashing my headlamps I do not know if I need a new headlamp flasher?

Thanks

Jason
Attachments
Flasher.jpg and
50/0951 1968 Wedgewood blue +2, 1990 Mini Cooper RSP
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: Higs » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:57 pm

Jason1 wrote:My question is what is a headlamp flasher and what does it look like? It only has 2 wires so is not a relay.


Plus 2 (and possibly / probably) had a complex system to continuously flash the headlights if you either 1) put up the headlights without turning them on or 2) put them down without turning them off. The wiring is needlessly complex but you can follow the logic if you study the wiring diagram long enough. Key to the system are the two micro switches that sense when the headlights are raised - these are situated in the nose on the passenger side.

The flasher unit is like the indicator flasher - it is cylindrical and takes two wires.

Why, you might ask, did Lotus not arrange it so that when the lights rose they turned on and when they droipped they turned off? It would have saved the weight of one dashboard switch, the flasher and a lot of wiring. I think it is connected to the advert that they ran at the time showing the arm of a airline pilot in a Plus 2. If a car has to appeal to pilots then you must have lots of switches!

...... but as I cannot remember ever flashing my headlamps I do not know if I need a new headlamp flasher?


The concept of flashing someone in an Elan is interesting. By the time you have put the headlights up and turned them on the accident will have happened, the ambulance will have left and you will be 10 miles down the road.

Some say that electric motors to lift the lights help but....

Richard
Higs
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 159
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Location: Bristol, England

PostPost by: TeeJay » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:13 pm

Hi Jason.
My +2 is also a 1968 and should be similar to yours. :D

I have just finished a rewire of my dash and I am currently working on the engine bay.

The photo shows the Headlight and Flasher relays.

Also in the circuits are 2 Headlight / Headlight flasher micro switches. They are activated by the headlight pod. When the Pods are closed there is no circuit to ground so both the headlights and flashers do not work. When the pods are UP the micro switches become hot and complete the circuit to ground so the headlight power on.

Hope this helps.
Attachments
Head Light Flasher Relay.jpg and
Trevor
1968 Elan +2 50/0173
User avatar
TeeJay
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 505
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Ranton, Nr Stafford. UK

PostPost by: Jason1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:55 pm

Thanks for the info.

Trevor is it just a flasher can like the indicators? Are there any markings on it?

Cheers

Jason
50/0951 1968 Wedgewood blue +2, 1990 Mini Cooper RSP
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: pauljones » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:03 pm

I thought this function was a throw back to the motorshow when the car was first introduced,and someone dicided to keep the flashing lights,quite possibly wrong though.
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
pauljones
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 968
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Gosport sur la mer,South hants

PostPost by: TeeJay » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:59 pm

Mmmm, interesting.

The Headlight flasher has the following.
TEX. Magna-Lite Flasher. FT300 - 12 Volt. 08-67
This item was on the car when I purchased it in 1975, but it may not be OE.

Just done a quick Google and not able to find this particular part, also not listed by several of the usual Lotus suppliers.

The Indicator Flasher, behind the Dash has the following. Not easy to read, so some characters may not be correct.
Lucas Flasher. FL5.2 v 42w. ?55020A1168. DO NOT DROP.
This looks the same, 3 post and same size, but the internals may be different.

Not sure if this helps or not.
Trevor
1968 Elan +2 50/0173
User avatar
TeeJay
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 505
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Ranton, Nr Stafford. UK

PostPost by: Jason1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:51 pm

Thanks Trevor

I am not sure what it does or even if I can get one. I may try an indicator flasher can and see what happens.

I also have a random relay to figure out and then fingers crossed the electrics work and I get a new MOT. :D
I have already replaced the horn relay and stripped the compressor; now that works. Already replaced burnt wires for the indicators, replaced indicator stalk. The PO loved Scotchlocs!!

Cheers

Jason
50/0951 1968 Wedgewood blue +2, 1990 Mini Cooper RSP
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: TeeJay » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:59 am

Hi Jason.
Where is the random relay positioned and what does it look like?

My car conforms to the wiring diagram in the Workshop Manual.
i.e. ?LOTUS ELAN +2 (RB106 Control Box)

On the dash I have the Headlight Relay and Indicator Flasher units (these look the same as the ones in the photo above) There is also the Volts Stabiliser, look like a small relay but it?s not a relay.
In the engine bay I have the 2 as the photo and next to them; removed at present as I think it?s US, is the Horn Relay. It fits where the 2 holes are. (See photo)

I would be interested to know if your Horn Relay looks the same as mine.
Regards.
Attachments
Horn Relay.jpg and
Trevor
1968 Elan +2 50/0173
User avatar
TeeJay
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 505
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Ranton, Nr Stafford. UK

PostPost by: Robbie693 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:29 am

Trevor - that's a starter solenoid

Robbie
User avatar
Robbie693
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1615
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Location: UK

PostPost by: TeeJay » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:02 am

Thanks Robbie,

Yes you are correct, according to Brian Bucklands book, its a later Starter Solenoid. I've no idea why it was fitted to work the horns.
For the starter, my car has the earlier round one fitted which has the useful push button and according to Brian these were fitted up to the early series 3.

The fitted solenoid certainly used to work the horns, but my new wiring harness has ring connectors for the horn relay, hence my interest as to what was fitted to Jasons car.

Sorry to hijack your thread Jason.
Trevor
1968 Elan +2 50/0173
User avatar
TeeJay
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 505
Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Ranton, Nr Stafford. UK

PostPost by: YellowS4DHC » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:21 am

Jason,
Sounds like you have multiple electrical issues to correct (gifts from the PO :lol: ).

When you get to wiring your headlamp flasher system, you might make note of the diagram (posted below) that I used to make my headlamp flasher system work. The basic "ingredients" are a 6RA relay and a Lucas 5FL flasher unit.

There are probably other combinations of relays and flasher units and associated wiring that will also work, but what's shown below works for me.

Regards
Rick

'69 Elan S4 DHC
'57 T1 Speedster
'67 S800 Coupe
Attachments
flasherwiring.jpg and
YellowS4DHC
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 74
Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Location: Boise, Idaho

PostPost by: Jason1 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:59 am

Thanks for the replies; all usefully stuff.

The extra relay is next to the horn and headlight flash relay (under bonnet). Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like it is wired into the wipers (green wires) but does nothing when I disconnect it. I am planning on stripping the tape from loom in this area and seeing what I have as its a real mess.

Cheers

Jason
50/0951 1968 Wedgewood blue +2, 1990 Mini Cooper RSP
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1589
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: elanner » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:10 pm

I had a minor event with my headlamps last week that caused me to investigate the wiring around the relays and flasher.

In tracking the issue down I realised that I have a simple, and probably dumb, question. Why are there two microswitches (one in each headlamp pod)? There seems to be no reason for both of them. The headlamps pods rise together, so the switches come on together, and they both switch ground to the relays/flasher. One does dip and full, so why doesn't it do flash also? As far as I can tell one microswitch could do all three, but Lotus was not likely to implement unnecessary switches/wiring, so I must be missing something. I'd like to know what it is before I do more tidying up of the wiring in that area this weekend. <Edited>Why does the workshop manual wiring diagram show a flasher relay with only three connections? <Second edit> OK, I figured out the three connection relay. Duh.

Nick
User avatar
elanner
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 512
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Boston, MA, USA

PostPost by: spridget » Wed May 15, 2013 11:23 am

Hi all
just found this interesting thread. I'm finishing rewiring my early +2. I have these two famous micro-switch. I studied the wiring diagram for a long moment. Then I understand easily what the first micro switch is for, but the second one ? saying here is ?c?est anglais ? !? OK I?m joking !
Well the flasher unit makes the relay ?flashing? so it is open/closed that gives as a result to make the headlamp flashing as an indicator with the noise in addition, Am I right ?
Thanks
Franck
50/0302 +2, Frogeye
User avatar
spridget
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Location: France

PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Wed May 15, 2013 2:54 pm

Back in the days when the Elans were very fast cars compared to the average saloon the flasher was a vulgar warning to the cars in front to get-out-of-my-way but is hardly acceptable today. There are limits to authenticity and I recommend disconnecting it!

I can confirm that only one "microswitch" was required but car electrics weren't very sophisticated in those days.
Meg

26/4088 1965 S1½ Old and scruffy but in perfect working order; the car too.
________________Put your money where your mouse is, click on "Support LotusElan.net" below.
User avatar
Quart Meg Miles
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 983
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Location: Barnham, W Sussex, UK
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: ElanDNA and 12 guests