Lotus Elan

Sprint Indicator flasher unit

PostPost by: l10tus » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:49 pm

I looked in the previous posts but couldn't find the answer, so I'm looking for help with my indicator wiring please? -

Contrary to the Lotus S4 wiring diagram which lists a 3no. x terminal unit, my car has a flasher unit (mounted behind the Dash) with 2no. x terminals only - is this a noormal deviation, as subsequently there's no single wire from the flasher units 3rd. terminal to the speedo mounted direction indicator - ( a Purple / Green wire?)?

Also, this single P/G wire, that is shown on the diagram, which should be leading to the Green direction indicator mounted in the Speedo (?) - is actually replaced by a twin cabled affair, with the G/W and R/W (indicator circuit) wires connected directly - was this a European alteration for UK vehicles?

I don't appear to have a Hazzard Flasher unit installed - were these for Federal / U.S. variants?

Finally, I do have a B/R single wire that seems to be in the viscinity of the (assumed missing during refurb!!) 2nd. indicator light hole in the dashboard, (next to the orange Hand Brake Warning light) - what colour should this 2nd. warning lamp be - and what's it for ?

Any help appreciated.

Phil. l10tus.

Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
Philip.

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PostPost by: alan71 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:06 am

With the 2 terminal flasher the warning lamp is connected between the left and right indicators, G/W and G/R wires. The lamp is not earthed at the speedo as the current will flow in opposite directions when indicating left or right.

The R/B wire is for a brake warning lamp.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:41 pm

Alan, just curious.

Doesn't this configuration cause the opposite side front and rear indicator lights to flash slightly as well? If I have it right, the dash bulb is placed in series with the outside indicator bulbs on the wrong side of the car (in parallel with one another). Is it just a case that although the two (or three?) outside bulbs are lighting they are faint enough that they can't be seen? Not knocking it if it works, just curious.

Was the wiring mod you outline done on some Lotus models originally or a fix folks have done after delivery?

Phil, to clarify did you mean Green/Red (G/R) rather than Red/White (R/W) in your question? Red/White is typically used for the instrument illumination circuit rather than the indicators. If the wire to the dash indicator bulb is actually Red/White, is it connected to Green/Red at the other end and perhaps simply the incorrect wire colour was used during a previous modification?

At any rate, I did it a bit differently for my rewire. I ran both the Green/Red (Left Side Indicator) and the Green/White (Right Side Indicator) wires to one terminal on the dash lamp and grounded the other terminal of the dash lamp. There is an in-line diode placed on each of the G/R & G/W power wires to the dash bulb to prevent powering the incorrect indicator lights. The modern aftermarket solid state three terminal flasher I am using also provides for the emergency flashing function, but that's a whole other topic.

For the dash warning lamps I used Red for Brake Fail, Orange for Hazard, and Yellow for Park. No idea if these are correct colours, so interested to hear from others; Tim do you have the colours to hand? There is a Sprint dash photo on this thread that shows Green for Hazard, Red for Park, and Yellow for Fail, but no idea if these are correct. Greg Z mentions his Federal uses Red for Hazard, so assume the posted colours have been modified. You can't see the hazard switch in the photo in the thread, but it is behind the right side of the steering wheel and can be seen on a photo on the vendor's web site. On my Plus 2 there is a fourth light for rear screen heater which is presumably not on your Sprint.

elan-for-sale-f2/federal-sprint-dhc-for-sale-canada-t25356.html

I assume all of the NA Sprints got the hazard flashers as my '69 Plus 2 has them. Sure Tim can confirm this for the NA and other markets? Phil, which market is your car for and where located? Tim's web site includes the following info under "Sprint Differences" that may help...

www.lotuselansprint.com wrote:
Export Models:

The European spec also included a hazard switch and light system, the switch being mounted below the ashtray, between the fan and lamps switches. The instrument bezels were recessed flush with the dashboard.

Federal Sprints... ...the hazard warning switch was fitted as well as hazard, handbrake and brake fail lights on the dashboard. ...The rear lamp cluster had different bulbs and direction lights fitted and operated from a DB10 relay box.

HTH
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PostPost by: l10tus » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:19 pm

Alan, Stu,

Thank you both for your fast, in depth replies, much apprerciated!

My 72' Sprint is an original UK DHC model. (Pistastio / White)

The indicator wire is R/G as you rightly corrected, sorry my mistake.

Do either of you know if this 'double wire to the indicator' was a factory alteration (compared to the wiring diagram circuit suggesting only one wire to the Indicator flasher unit) - as the wiring I have looks very original, eminating from the neatly black taped loom, as if it's always been there from original build ?

Do I need to use Diodes (as there's no evidence of any at present in my wiring)?

Alan, do your lamps all flash slightly, as Stu mentions - is it possible for you to check for me?

What's the type / reference / source for the diodes, if I need to obtain any ?

What colour then for the Brake fail light - as O.E.?

Should I have more than 2no. individual, Indicator lamps on my dash (I had the original one relaminated - so can't actually determine how many holes were there originally - should have taken a picture pre-refurb!)

Thanks again,

Phil.

'72 DHC Sprint.
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:28 pm

Not really what you want to hear but... when I rewired my 72 Sprint some while back, the only item which we never really sorted was the indicators. None of the diagrams seem to be correct, we tried both 3 and 2 terminal units and could not come up with a solution where the green light on the dash flashed for both left and right; in the end I opted for it to work when the left turn signal is on, because you can see the right wing-repeater light from the driving seat (RHD).
I don't have any hazard unit either!

Lotus, eh? :roll:
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PostPost by: l10tus » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:47 pm

Thanks Pete,

Oh no ! your joking !!

Wonder how many others have that problem ?

So, I guess finish the re-wire as best as possible, (but don't tighten the screws in the Dash - it may be back out quicker than I thought !) and check?

Being a realist, I'm expecting other issues with the wiring anyway, I suppose!

Thanks for being open about it - I suppose I should have guessed when the wiring diagram didn't Tally Up!

P.S. - I know I've got to tighten the dash screws as this item is a stressed member.

Thanks,

Phil.

'72 DHC Sprint.

Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
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PostPost by: alan71 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:17 pm

The 2 terminal flasher is original on my 71 Sprint, Lotus never updated the wiring diagram.

Stu, you are right the current for the warning lamp does flow to earth through the indicators on the opposite side but it is too low to light them. I?ve never noticed them flash faintly even in the dark.

I think the brake fail lamp is red but my car never had one, export models only?

Alan.
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29 71 = Week 29 1971 ?
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:23 pm

Phil,
It's not that bad.... you can get at the relevant bits of wiring with the dash in place, just remove the under-dash trim thingy and take lessons in reverse limbo-dancing! Sitting upside-down in an Elan seat is actually quite comfortable. :wink:
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:54 pm

l10tus wrote:Alan, Stu,

Thank you both for your fast, in depth replies, much appreciated!


More than welcome Phil. Lotus wiring is better than crossword puzzles for me! The amusing part is there is never an answer in next Sunday's paper so you are never wrong! :)

My 72' Sprint is an original UK DHC model. (Pistachio / White)

The indicator wire is R/G as you rightly corrected, sorry my mistake.


Pretty sure the UK guys will be able to help better on additional details then.


Do either of you know if this 'double wire to the indicator' was a factory alteration (compared to the wiring diagram circuit suggesting only one wire to the Indicator flasher unit) - as the wiring I have looks very original, eminating from the neatly black taped loom, as if it's always been there from original build ?


Sounds like original, but I haven't a clue. Alan, thanks for clearing up how it works. :)


Do I need to use Diodes (as there's no evidence of any at present in my wiring)?

Alan, do your lamps all flash slightly, as Stu mentions - is it possible for you to check for me?

What's the type / reference / source for the diodes, if I need to obtain any ?


You could add diodes if you want, but as Alan says I guess it works without. I used diodes from Radio Shack soldered in place, but if doing again I would use these ones as they come with spade connectors. I went this way because of the problems in the archives like Pete describes and some concerns expressed with the stock set-up on some models behaving strangely with the right combination of switch positions.

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/s ... e&x=24&y=9

What colour then for the Brake fail light - as O.E.?


The OE colour in my Federal Plus 2 was Brown/Purple, but this is completely non-standard to BS-AU7a 1983 Colour Code for Vehicle Wiring . Later versions of Plus 2 show other colours. The call-up for this function in BS-AU7a 1983 Colour Code for Vehicle Wiring appears to be Black/Light Green for dual brake systems with a PDW valve or Black/White for single hydraulic systems where the warning light is for brake fluid level. I used Black/White during my re-wire as that is what came in my after-market loom. The power for the circuit should be supplied by Purple, Hot at all times, Fused for dual brake systems in my view. Lotus does appear to use use White, Hot in Run & Start, Unfused for some cars though. YMMV. :) Here is a copy of the Standard colours for reference, there are lots of them on-line...

http://www.dimebank.com/LucasColours.html


Should I have more than 2no. individual, Indicator lamps on my dash (I had the original one re-laminated - so can't actually determine how many holes were there originally - should have taken a picture pre-refurb!)


No, one only dash indicator located in the Speedo.


Thanks again,

Phil.

'72 DHC Sprint.
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.


Cheers!

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