Lotus Elan

Self cancelling indicators

PostPost by: ericbushby » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:16 pm

The indicators on my Elan S3 will not cancel. Apparently there should be a ring or collar with a projecting tab to knock the switch back when straightening the steering. This is missing. I have been told that the steering column is Triumph Herald sourced.
Does anyone know what it is like, or have you got one, or any suggestions welcome.

Eric in Burnley

Not running yet. Next week!!!
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PostPost by: paddy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:41 pm

Yes, there is a clip: see part 140549 in here:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ImagePopUp. ... GRID005790

You should be able to get one from a classic Triumph specialist, if you can't get one from one of the Lotus suppliers.

It is the same column on nearly all the small chassis Triumphs (Herald, Spitfire, Vitesse and GT6), except for the later Spitfire Mk 4.

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PostPost by: paddy » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:47 pm

In fact Rimmer list it as being in stock:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-140549

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PostPost by: ericbushby » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:26 am

Thankyou Paddy. Clip ordered as advised. A simple question can sometimes have a simple answer. I will report back.

Eric in Burnley

S3 SE TYpe 45 Not running yet.--- Next week
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:18 am

Clip for steering column arrived, fitted and working. That was easy. Thanks again.
Eric in Burnley
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PostPost by: RotoFlexible » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:08 pm

If you get it so it doesn't interfere with the operation of the switch with the wheel straight, I'd be happy to know how you did it. In order to signal a left turn (and have the switch stay where it should), I have to turn the wheel slightly to the right as I operate the switch. I think the position of the clip on the column is non adjustable.
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PostPost by: paddy » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:15 pm

You have to centre it via the splines on the steering rack to get everything lined up correctly.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:57 pm

RotoFlexible wrote:If you get it so it doesn't interfere with the operation of the switch with the wheel straight, I'd be happy to know how you did it. In order to signal a left turn (and have the switch stay where it should), I have to turn the wheel slightly to the right as I operate the switch. I think the position of the clip on the column is non adjustable.


Andrew, although mine is a Plus 2, position was adjustable but very firmly clipped on. I actually rotated mine 180 degrees and swapped the positions of the dip beam stock and turn signal stock as I prefer the turn signal on my left hand. Perhaps give it another go when you are in there again?
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:20 pm

Andrew, I finally got my right after the third attempt. This is all about aligning the universal joint on the rack, to the clamp on the steering column to the bump on the column and the steering wheel. Take off the steering wheel and look down to see where the bump is. Put the steering wheel back on and rotate until the bump is in the 9 o'clock location. If you move the indicators, you can see where they come out to interact with the bump. Once the steering wheel and the bump are lined up correctly, re-bolt the steering wheel back on. Now, looking down into the engine compartment mark the top center of where the steering column enters the flexible joint assembly on the rack and the depth of how far the column goes into the joint. This will be important later. Now turn the steering wheel until the top of the flexible joint is parallel to the ground. Now the wheels are straight and you can see from the line you made on the top of the steering column how much you will need to rotate the steering column to get everything lined up. Go back in the footwell, look up at the steering column, there is a clamp just above the gas pedal, you'll need to turn the steering wheel to get access to the 2 bolt heads, loose them enough so that you will be able to loosen them the rest of the way with your fingers, then turn the steering wheel back to straight and then loosen the 2 bolts on the clamp the rest of the way until the clamp is free to rotate around both the inner and outer steering column. The outer column has a window in it and the inner column has a flat side, and the bottom of the clamp holds these two parts aligned. Go down to the flexible joint and really loosen the bolt that holds the steering column. If the steering column doesn't pull out of the joint, then you haven't loosened either the clamp or joint enough. Pull the column out of the joint, rotate it until the mark you made earlier is at 12 o'clock and reinsert into the universal joint to the depth that you marked earlier and re-tighten to bolt on the universal joint. Go back into the footwell, rotate and reposition the outer and inner sections of the steering column until both are at the bottom and up as far as possible towards the steering wheel end, or else the clamp with hit the gas pedal bolt, retighten the blots using fingers, so the bottom of clamp is parallel with ground. Once finger tight, rotate steering wheel and retighten completely with wrench and you should be done. Dan
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:04 pm

Dan,
Thanks for the detailed explanation. That was great.
My steering wheel wasn`t straight and the `bump` was misaligned. I have now done a full reset and I am pleased with it. The clip will only fit correctly in one position.
The basic mistake on mine was how the universal joint was fixed to the steering rack.
With this rotated correctly and your setting procedure followed it now is correct.
Just one point-- I have positioned the `bump` at the 3 o`clock position between the tabs of the indicator switch so that it works with a small rotation of the wheel. ( indicators on the right)
Delighted
Eric in burnley
67 S3 SE TYpe 45 Not running yet---Next week!!!
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:16 pm

Glad to help. My car is left hand drive, so perhaps left hand drive is set at 9 o'clock and right hand drive is 3 o'clock. Dan
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:08 am

I got an email from Nick last night about this. Nick was in doing the bushings on the column to tighten things up a bit and thought he ought to fix that nagging issue of "No Cancel" indicators. The clamp came off of the column instead of the rack. The column that Nick was looking at had a flat machined on the end of it to give the pinch bolt some clearance and a bit of minor for/aft adjustment. I thought about it a bit and thought I ought to get some pictures to freshen things in my mind. So I pull out the first steering column and look at the splines and its 360 of spline, the next one was like nicks so I took a couple photos. I didn't realize that they came with the flat and also as a 360 groove that the pinch bolt passes though. So with the 360 groove on the column the column can be mounted in any of the splined positions, however on the Flat milled spline column they are designed to be keyed on the steering column and the Clamp must be pulled off of the rack (not column) to rotate the cancel peg at the top of the steering column. I guess Nick could have rotated the peg on the upper column at the top but I not sure how much was apart.
Attachments
splines on rack and column.JPG and
Inset photo of the TWO different lower columns that you may see in the Elan and some plus2's. The rack has 360 degrees of spline as does the column on the right. Both joints will not pull out with out removing the 1/4 unf pinch bolt.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: elanner » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:27 pm

Gary,

Thanks for this. Moving the cancel peg at the top of the shaft a few degrees to get it to the three or nine o'clock position isn't possible because it's firmly located on the column with a couple of dimples (on mine, at least).

Of course, you can rotate it 180 degrees - which would be the appropriate thing to do when switching the indicator stalk from one side to the other. It's a tricky little devil to rotate, too.

Back to the u/j at the bottom of the column: From previous posts I expected to see a groove, not missing splines. Now that I know that missing splines are, um, acceptable, I'll align the cancel peg by pulling the u/j off the rack.

Which brings me to the collapsible column clamp. I've always assumed that the two bolts holding the clamp together have nothing to do with the force needed to collapse the column - they just hold everything together, so presumably need to be nice and tight. The clever bit appears to be done by the adjustable locknut/widget in the middle. I've never touched this, on the assumption that the previous guy got it right. Is that appropriate?

Nick
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:14 pm

elanner wrote: Which brings me to the collapsible column clamp. I've always assumed that the two bolts holding the clamp together have nothing to do with the force needed to collapse the column - they just hold everything together, so presumably need to be nice and tight. The clever bit appears to be done by the adjustable locknut/widget in the middle. I've never touched this, on the assumption that the previous guy got it right. Is that appropriate? Nick


Nick,

I had the same query a while back. See this thread & good advice from Sean.

elan-archive-f16/steering-column-t8809.html?hilit= steering clamp

HIH - Cheers - Richard
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:44 pm

elanner wrote:Which brings me to the collapsible column clamp. I've always assumed that the two bolts holding the clamp together have nothing to do with the force needed to collapse the column - they just hold everything together, so presumably need to be nice and tight. The clever bit appears to be done by the adjustable locknut/widget in the middle. I've never touched this, on the assumption that the previous guy got it right. Is that appropriate?


Brian Buckland quotes 40-45 lb ft torque for the locking grub screw which is the standard torque for 7/16" UNF thread. I'm sure Seans method is fine, the important thing is that it's good and tight.
Regards,
Roger
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