Lotus Elan

Headlamps come on but wont go off!

PostPost by: john w » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:03 am

Hi people.
I am currently restoring my 1970 Elan S4 and Its all done and ready for its MOT.......BUT there seem to be a problem with the headlamp wiring. The headlamps come on when they come up and go off when they go down but only in full beam mode. In dip beam mode they come on when they come up but don?t go off again when back down!

I managed to solve this problem by disconnecting the main beam warning lamp from the steering column loom but cant for the life of me think how this is affecting the headlamp relay stopping it from switching off??

Can any one please help as its really doing my head in now!
John
1970 Elan S4 fhc with Strombergs and alternator
john w
New-tral
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Nr Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

PostPost by: oldelanman » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:00 pm

Hi elanboy,
Welcome to the forum.

Have a read through this thread.......http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan-f14/headlamp-relay-control-t16985.html. Seems you have the same symptoms.

Care to tell us your name and where you are located ?

Regards,
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:18 pm

elanboy wrote:Hi people.
I am currently restoring my 1970 Elan S4 and Its all done and ready for its MOT.......BUT there seem to be a problem with the headlamp wiring. The headlamps come on when they come up and go off when they go down but only in full beam mode. In dip beam mode they come on when they come up but don?t go off again when back down!

I managed to solve this problem by disconnecting the main beam warning lamp from the steering column loom but cant for the life of me think how this is affecting the headlamp relay stopping it from switching off??

Can any one please help as its really doing my head in now!


I'm not sure that you quite understand how they are supposed to work; do you have a wiring diagram? You have to switch the lamps on and off, not just raise and lower them.
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: john w » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:00 pm

Roger
Many thanks for the link. Have now sorted out my profile (I think) - its John from near Aylesbury, Bucks. Have had my Elan S4 since new (kit delivered August Bank Holiday 1970). After being off the road for 20+ years, have during the last few years done complete rebuild including electrics. Rebuild gone really well, but then this headlamp fault. Having replaced relays (ex Sue Miller /Paul Matty 30 amp), micro switches, dash and alternator specific engine bay loom (ex Chris Neil). Am 100% certain wiring is correct according to manual and taking account of the new DIN numbered relay terminals. Have detected voltages in the h/lamp circuitary where thay shouldn't be as intimated in one of your links. So am thinking there could be a manufacturing fault in the new loom we have fitted. Anway, I am going through everything again taking account of info in your link. Thanks again for your advice.
John
1970 Elan S4 fhc with Strombergs and alternator
john w
New-tral
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Nr Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

PostPost by: john w » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:28 pm

Pete
Thanks, but I've been dealing in detail with Elans for the last 40 years so I think I know about switches and wiriring diagrams etc. The headlamp problem I encountered occured following installation of new looms, relays, side/headlamp switch etc. See my response to Roger
John
1970 Elan S4 fhc with Strombergs and alternator
john w
New-tral
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Nr Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

PostPost by: oldelanman » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:02 pm

John,

You have a PM

Regards,
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:14 pm

elanboy wrote:Pete
Thanks, but I've been dealing in detail with Elans for the last 40 years so I think I know about switches and wiriring diagrams etc. The headlamp problem I encountered occured following installation of new looms, relays, side/headlamp switch etc. See my response to Roger

None of which was apparent from your question.
If you know about switches and wiring diagrams you are half-way there. :wink:
Re looms: quality of CN parts in general has been patchy over the last few years, mine came from Matty and had several daft mistakes built in, not to mention the extra wires and missing wires too. I had it all laid out and marked-up before putting it in the car and took it back to them for them to explain the bits which made no sense; they solved three of the seven problems but admitted defeat on the others.
The headlamp circuitry (as I'm sure you found out 40 years ago) is complicated by the flashing relay nonsense; as far as I am aware no other car was ever fitted with this "feature" and we can all do without it. The pod micro-switches were never designed for contact with moisture, so sticking them a foot off the ground in the front of a car was not a good idea, even if you get it all working, it will corrode during the first Winter.
So, if you disable all of the flashing circuits, it makes things easier to figure out.
btw, I bought a little re-chargeable 12v battery from Radio Shack to power up things while testing (avoiding a melt-down if I got things wrong with the car battery connected).

Keep us posted- there are one or two real electro-experts on this forum. :)

btw; Gareth did an AO drawing of the wiring diagram a while back (there is only one minor error!) I'm fairly sure that it is posted somewhere on this site.

Image
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: john w » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:11 pm

Pete
Thanks again
You will appreciate I understand all the stuff you say. Have fitted a new side/head light switch as from Paul Matty as the old switch was damaged. This new one is of USA manufacture (same as Sue Miller's I understand). The terminal configuration is not the same as the original rocker switch and does not include a terminal for the head lamp flasher. So I have disabled all of the original head lamp flasher circuitary. But I still have the same headlamp problem. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is a wiring loom circuitary problem (as I think you intimated as possible). So my tests continue. Will let you know.
John
1970 Elan S4 fhc with Strombergs and alternator
john w
New-tral
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: Nr Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:17 pm

John,
If I had to do another re-wire, I'd build my own loom. :roll:
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:48 pm

Hi Guys...

I bought a new 3 part loom from Sue Miller and it was (almost) spot on. Made by Autosparks I think. Only one slight issue. The mainbeam warning lamp would not go out on dip and needed a mod to fix. I soldered all the con's and heatshrunk wrapped them prior to loom taping the area to look like one continuous loom.

The only other mods were to earthing points (added) and the main earth connection.(Moved)..

Very happy with it. Not overly cheap but you get what you pay for.

Alex... 8)
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:42 am

Forgot to say that I installed a hefty earthing system, a "ring earth" if you like.
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: richard sprint » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:42 pm

John

I'm assuming I have it correct that we met at the NEC last November where you sold me the cooling fan motor?

I'm hoping you get this problem sorted asap and hopefully we can arrange a meet up with fully functioning cars!

Richard
richard sprint
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 310
Joined: 02 Feb 2009

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: Andrewelan, joe7 and 11 guests