Lotus Elan

water pump alternative designs

PostPost by: Leo Leentvaar » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:48 am

I am having my Sprint Engine rebuilt at the moment and my local classics specialist (who's more into Triumph's, Healey's and MG' s) said he spoken to a guy who own a Lotus Cortina who had a 'bolt on' water pump.
Not sure whether or not the Cortina engine is the same as my Sprint Big valve.

As the engine is currently being rebuilt, this is the time to implement changes.
I know full well that the water pump is a weak part of the TC engine so at the least I am having the current pump overhauled. But if there's alternatives that are somehow affordable, I am interested in the mod (even if it were only for improved reliability).

Any experience out there is appreciated how you fared and where you sourced it (if applicable)

Thanks

Leo
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PostPost by: Frank Howard » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:17 am

Leo,

To answer your question, with the exception of the size of the exhaust valves and the design of the cam cover, the Lotus Cortina engine is essentially the same as yours. The water pump you speak of is known as a cassette style pump. Go to:

http://www.davebean.com

and click on "New Products". Unfortunately it's expensive. That's what has kept me from ordering one. It's your choice. Good luck.
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:00 am

Leo,

If you are not a stickler for authenticity, do like some other owners did. Install a Davies-Craig electric water pump, electric radiator fan, and their electronic controller module.

This ensures that the water pump and fan run only when needed, and only as fast as needed. No more over heating at stop lights, or excess power consumption at high rpm.

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PostPost by: mark030358 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:12 am

Just fitted a burton one to my S4 excellent quality.

recommended

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PostPost by: gerrym » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:22 am

Leo, if you are sticking with an engine driven pump, the Burton Power modular design is very good. I can vouch for it having bought one.

Basically you replace the engine front cover with their own design. It has a bolt on cassette for the waterpump, with tapped jacking holes to aid removal. https://www.burtonpower.com/product_main.aspx?home.aspx You need part numbers FL843 & FL844 for the covers for a std L block engine (ie 1500 block not a tall block). You then need the actual waterpump and cassette. In the event of a future waterpump overhaul, of course you only need to buy the pump itself.

Complete with the hardware and new pump, it comes to about ?350 (must be a bargin for Euro Buyers!!) but if your front cover is good, you can sell that to reduce overall net cost.

I see that you have a sprint so am assuming you have a good Alternator system. If so, seriously consider David's suggestion of the electric water-pump and electronic controller.

Regards

Gerry
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PostPost by: Leo Leentvaar » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:28 pm

Thanks for the advice guys, this shows again how great a help the internet and a forum like this is.
Gerry, I did change the dynamo for an alternator last year for obvious reasons.

And yes, you're right Gerry ,with the current GBP to ? exchange rate the Burton one makes an interesting option these days. I feel it's a 'symphatetic' mod that does not greatly alter the car's appearance under the bonnet (hood for those Stateside :) ) while increasing reliability and serviceability.

For the moment I tend towards that as I fear the bill will be big enough including the engine overhaul and balacing the crankshaft.
(wonder what the missus will say, at least she likes driving the car too, so that would counterbalance the bump somewhat :) )

Again thanks for the great advice.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:20 pm

A stock twin cam water pump that is installed and tensioned correctly will last 40,000 miles. By this time the cylinder head is very likely to be in need of a freshening valve job. If you do not take the opertunaty to do the waterpump while the head is off, it will likely get you. If the current water pump housing has seen better days then by all means investigate the Burtons or Dave Beans replacement, if not install a new bearing and seal and impeller and save the 300 GBP for the next rebuild.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Given your location, looks like the Burton product is easier than the Dave Bean option. I have been trying to source a cassette pump as well.

At any rate, Dave Bean is presently getting more stock manufactured, and the kit is therefore not immediately available. They have been expecting availability for several months, and hopefully available prior to spring.

The Elan Factory in Oz also offers a casette pump kit. They are presently waiting for empellars to be able to supply; no definite timing provided by Steve yet.

I think I will check out the Burton product as well as want to get drivetrain back together over the winter. Thanks for the link; I was just going to ask the same question.
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PostPost by: chicagojeff » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:53 am

as gary points out, a new stock water pump will last you till you need to rebuild the head anyway. that said, i got the dave bean cassette because not only can it be changed in place, but the parts are beefier.
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PostPost by: RotoFlexible » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:41 am

stugilmour wrote:At any rate, Dave Bean is presently getting more stock manufactured, and the kit is therefore not immediately available. They have been expecting availability for several months, and hopefully available prior to spring.


Dave Bean was "getting more stock manufactured" 1-1/2 years ago when we were looking for a kit. We went for the Burtons kit instead and have been very pleased with it.
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:15 pm

RotoFlexible wrote:Dave Bean was "getting more stock manufactured" 1-1/2 years ago when we were looking for a kit. We went for the Burtons kit instead and have been very pleased with it.


It took Dave Bean about two years to deliver his cassette water pump to me. Bean does not cast a new front cover, he welds up old ones (lots of welding). I guess that is why "getting more stock manufactured" takes so long, he has to find old covers. I believe Burton cast a completely new front cover, am I correct on this?
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PostPost by: gerrym » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:17 pm

Russ, the Burton front covers are new castings and "beautifully executed".

Regards

Gerry
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PostPost by: denicholls2 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:36 pm

I see one possible exception to Gary's good advice that may be worth your consideration. I know that at least his S2 is a regular driver, but cars that sit for long periods are reputed (by this list) to have more frequent failures than those that are used regularly. This might affect the otherwise routine 40,000 mile service interval, and your choice of a pump. If, for example, your pump goes bad once a year, it doesn't take too many head gasket replacements, etc. to make up the cost of one of the cartridge solutions.

Then again, you could always just drive it more. :wink:
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:07 pm

denicholls2 wrote:I see one possible exception to Gary's good advice that may be worth your consideration. I know that at least his S2 is a regular driver, but cars that sit for long periods are reputed (by this list) to have more frequent failures than those that are used regularly. This might affect the otherwise routine 40,000 mile service interval, and your choice of a pump. If, for example, your pump goes bad once a year, it doesn't take too many head gasket replacements, etc. to make up the cost of one of the cartridge solutions.

Then again, you could always just drive it more. :wink:


My Elan is sometime a regular driver but in New England the season for enjoying a roadster without a heater or top is brief. This summer was as bad as its been, short rides to the Wednesday eve cruise night (lawnmower gas, a mile and a half each way), probably only got hot once all summer going up to the BCD show. The pump was put in 11 years ago but only 4 or 5 thousand miles. I have one of Dave beans alternator kits. I set the tention to just on the verge of starting to squeal with a load (lights on) at low engine speeds. Anyway, I still have the stock waterpump
and will keep it as long as it keeps working.
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:24 am

I understand JAE in Cali also offers a cassette pump. I don't see any details on their site though.

http://www.jaeparts.com/

I went ahead and ordered the Burton kit this weekend; waiting for confirmation of the order, shipping times, etc.

Can someone confirm that the gasket sets are the same for the modified plates? I put a note in my order to confirm this item.

I note the pump itself is listed as on back order, and is brought in as required. Have not heard yet how long this may take. Will update when they process.

Cheers!
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