my plus 2 and previous owners lack of honesty...

[rocket]

Have owned my plus 2 now since just after christmas,had a fair amount of work carried out by paul mattys such as gearbox recon and oil leaks stopped..have done a little work myself on general bits.I enjoy the car hugely,its like a part of the family already,it is now reliable,starts,stops and drives well.The previous owner,who iv only just found out was a fairly common poster on here mislead me on many problems with car,but its sorted now and i dont regret the purchase,though i regret his dishonesty,and cannot believe a car enthusiast would mislead so badly..my question is...is this a common problem when dealing with car purchases?

[Elanintheforest]

I go through life believing in cock-up rather than conspiracy, and it usually works out that way. My experience is that the vast majority of folks are straight, honest and want to do the right thing

With something like a 35 year old car, if it had or developed problems, did they really know about it or anticipate the problem occurring? You mention that you had to have the gearbox rebuilt, and I guess it?s a 5 speed which are prone to problems. If the guy had the car for a while, may he have got used to slow changes and it being noisy? We all have different standards.

Most importantly, you must have tested / driven the car, if it was on the road, before buying it?what problems were evident then?. You must accept a fair bit of responsibility for the transaction as well. If you paid top price for a mint restored Plus 2, probably ?15k or more, then having leaks or gearbox problems would be unacceptable. If you paid a mid price for a cosmetically restored car, then I?m afraid that you must anticipate some problems.

In writing this, it does occur to me that there was a guy on here last year who started to have gearbox problems, and posted a few queries about it. A few months later, the car was on Pistonheads. If this was the car you bought, then it would be very disappointing that he didn?t mention any issues with the gearbox. But if the gearbox was very poor, a road test would have picked that up.

I think you have to move on and enjoy the car, and now that you?ve had the gearbox rebuild, you?ve sorted out one of the biggest bugbears of a 5 speed Plus 2.

Mark

[rocket]

Mark,i have moved on,as i said the car is superb now,and im enjoying every moment of ownership..i did test drive the car,and gearbox probs and leaks were obvious,its just that when i asked such questions as is it reliable? answer yes never broke down..strange then that i find when delving back into history on here a long list of break down probs..lots of other misleading answers followed...im not complaining about car,its good now,and wasnt too difficult to put right,i simply feel that i was lied to at time of purchase and wanted to see if thats a common problem with car sellers?

[billwill]

Rocket,

I don't think you understand, yet!

A breakdown, for a Lotus enthusiast is defined as something that you had to get in external assistance to get you home.

If you manage to fix it at the roadside or limp home, that's just a 'minor problem' not a 'breakdown'

[rocket]

Thanks Bill.. i do own a couple of motorcycles of old age that have me well versed in such things..are breakdowns common with elans then?

[zeteclotus]

I agree with billwill

My + 2 has never broken down in a "not got me home point of view" so yes it is reliable.

But I have had to drive 6 miles in 2nd gear.9badly rebuilt gear box) and drive from scotland with 45mph being my max possible speed ( rubbish in the tank)

I don't know why people slag the 5 speed box off.

Probably because of bad rebuilds and the fact it was not tested properly when first released.
The one I rebuilt had been repaired with glue but once I fixed it properly it was and has been fine 30K so far.


The thing with 30 year old cars is they were made in a way you could easily bodge them up to get you home. Not like modern cars which lets face it are much more reliable anyway.

[elan_fan]

Elans are as reliable as anything else, if well maintained. Colin used a bit less "meat" in most areas to save pounds and ???, mainly ???. You're doing the right thing going through the car and repairing properly and making good any bodges. Keep doing that, you will never get to the end of the list because the list keeps growing. Your gearbox was a fine example of what could cause problems but instead of going down the "what sort of oil should I put in my box to stop it whining/jumping out of gear" half hearted route, you identified the problem and have had it correctly repaired QED. Older cars do require a running maintainance schedule and you would never go on a journey without checking the oil and water in cars of that era.

I totally commend your attitude towards your car and it is expensive when you are repairing your car to put it back to square one as opposed to fixing a problem temporarily. The PO probably was an enthusiast and the level of engineering required to repair your car was probably totally beyond him and he has probably been given advice by any one of thousands of expert mechanics (you'll start to meet them now when you go for the MOT) who know all about Elans, most even have met Colin at some point. Let that go and enjoy your Elan.

regards
Mark

[oldokie]

To answer what I took to be your primary question, Yes!!! The most honest guy in the world will lie about a car he has for sale. I find that lies about used cars are more common than lies about sex. Were I in the market for a Popemobile, I would not expect it to be in as good a nick as he said it was.

[kcrossle]

From Trevor Sparrow's wonderful Plus 2 site http://www.geocities.com/trevorsparrow/ ... uction.htm:

Before you buy a +2 ask yourself...
Am I fit enough to push this car a reasonable distance? Can I afford the never ending repairs.

You just have to love the positive experiences more than those occasional difficult ones.

Like most of us.

[tower of strength]

I think we all have rose tinted views of our pride and joys, especially when parting with a 'cherished' car. Blatant honesty decimates the value, where as an economical description doesn't.

it is wise to take along some one with real marque knowledge (not the bloke from the pub who was Colins drinking buddy in the early days and used to race an Elan ), when viewing a prospective purchase..... I'm sure there are several forum members who would gladly accompany a prospective purchaser to give a second (read unbiased) opinion of the intended purchase, I know I would be available on a local basis.

I'm pretty blunt when it comes to assessing cars, especially Loti (used to be a buyer of salvage write offs),

"minor paint blemishes" means : needs a respray(budget ?3k+)
"minor/slight cracks" means : needs a full body restoration (budget ?5K+)
"slight oil leak (they all do this!)" means : needs an engine stripdown (budget ?1K-?5K dependant on resultant inspection and owner ability)
"small rip or tear in seat" means needs a re trim (budget from ?150ish for second hand trim to ?1.5K+ for a retrim)
"Original chassis.... no rust/new mot" means : needs a chassis budget ?2K -?3k+ lower figure is for DIY
Any electrical gremlins means a rewire (30+ year old under specced wiring with multitudes of bodges/extra earths) in my opinion, allow ?300+ labour charges if paying some one else...20 hours minimum I rekon

regardless of weather some thing is slightly or completely defective, the cost of renovation is very similar, so it would be foolish to pay a premium for a slightly tatty car over a very tatty car, if you want to end up with a perfect (if such a thing exists) one at the end, however if you are happy with it as it is, you pay what you think its worth!

clear as mud that lot.....it is very late you know

Mark

[1964 S1]

This is the best, Thank You Jeff.
I'm in the used car biz, I've bought thousands of cars. It's true.
The replies here seem accurate, old Elan owners exhibit genius mentality but paranoia strikes deep.
Mark's views are from a guy who admits he buys salvaged cars, wrecked?
In the words of Monty Python,,,,,, say no more, say no more,........

Eric

[tower of strength]

This is the best, Thank You Jeff.
I'm in the used car biz, I've bought thousands of cars. It's true.
The replies here seem accurate, old Elan owners exhibit genius mentality but paranoia strikes deep.
Mark's views are from a guy who admits he buys salvaged cars, wrecked?
In the words of Monty Python,,,,,, say no more, say no more,........

Eric

I used to run my "outlaws" (ex wifes family) salvage and spares operation in the 1990's, part of my duties was to value insurance write offs for either spares or as a piece of saleable salvage. I had to see through the superficial damage to identify what was really there! I can spot a repaired (metal bodied) car 99% of the time, I've learned to keep my gob shut when its a friends latest pride and joy though!, unless its really bad or dangerous

[1964 S1]

Hello Mark, my words were not well chosen and your explaination helps. I thought maybe you were buying wrecks and rebuilding them for resale. We're all hard on used car sellers as well we should be.
My answer to rocket's question is, unfortunately, yes, it is a common problem. A lot of people selling their cars overlook items that have gone haywire over the years.
We have a saying... It's like watching your dog grow old.... a lot of changes may take place but the past is a distant memory.
However, if you ask the right questions and get bogus answers, that's when a buyer can feel taken advantage of.
Eric