reduction starter question

[chicagojeff]

About a month ago some of you kind souls may remember
I blew up my original Lucas starter...probably weak grounding, though it was beginning to grind and fail repeatedly. Anyway, just dropped in the new Gufstafson starter and thought I'd ask if there was any advice before I crank it up for the first time again, besides cleaning all the grounds of course? I'm so cold I have to come inside and take a break anyway.

Two strange things on the new starter: (1) is an extra electrical contact connection...I am supposing that this is for some other make or model solenoid perhaps, because the old starter didnt have anything other than the ground wire connection. And 2, anyone know why there is a short little jump wire that is heavily shielded between the two main cylinders of the starter body? The way it gets mounted, that little jumper (maybe an internal ground?) winds up pretty close to the oil pan.

thanks, and I am crossing my cold fingers...

[chicagojeff]

okay, well obviously the jumper is the connection between the solenoid and the starter...still not sure what the other flat plug-type connector is for

[rgh0]

Pre-engage starters have the solenoid mounted on the starter and they may have up to 3 spade style connections in addition to the main battery connection.

1. The connection from the ignition switch start postion that turns on the starter via the solenoid.

2. A connection on the same side as the main battery connection cable(solenoid input). Often used to connect the alternator to the batery.

3. A connection on the output side of the solenoid. Often used for reduced voltage coils to give the full 12 volts when starting.

As observed in the last post the short jumper between the two cylinders carries the main battery current output from the solenoid to the starter motor itself.

Rohan

[chicagojeff]

thanks rohan...i know it sounded like a silly question,

I think mine (a Gustafson) must be case where the spade connector is for the connection to the starter switch. What I can't figure out, is how the old inertia starter could have worked without it? I know the solenoid was on the bulkhead, but how did the solenoid ever get connected to the starter? Maybe (or must be?) was it connected thru to the power lead somewhere, and that carried current thru the thick battery connection on the old starter...
hmm.

I got it hooked up late last night, but no power. The audible "click", bt no spinning or starting. My other mystery question on these things is how the starter gear hits the flywheel ring gear? Is it that the solenoid engages the starter motor axle, which then extends to reach the ring gear? Hmm on this one too....

thanks to anyone who knows this stuff. jeff

[type26owner]

Jeff,
IIRC, the power cable that comes directly from the battery to the now obsolete solenoid mounted on the firewall has to moved to the heavy threaded lug on the starter. If you want to kludge it quickly just bolt the end of the cable which feeds down to the starter to the other side of the old solenoid onto it's battery lug. This removes the old solenoid from the circuit entirely. This allows you to reuse the existing cables for time being.

What makes this type of starter much more ringgear friendly is the solenoid pops the the drive gear into engagement of the ringgear fully before the power to spin the starter is applied. Kiss the Lucas Bendix piece of crap goodby forever.

[Hamish Coutts]

Keith,

If the old solenoid is now redundant ther must be quite a bit of rewiring to be done. The old solenoid is where the main charging lead from the alternator connects into the battery curcuit and from memory there is also a connection of some kind that links into the ignition circuit. (If the connection is broken the ignition light doesn't come on)

I've been following this post with interest as I intend to fit a Gustafsen starter in the not too distant future. Sounds like a fun job and going by your remarks, very worthwhile!

Regards,

Hamish.

[type26owner]

Hamish,
If you have the cold start ignition system then indeed there is or should be a 12v connector on the Gustafson unit that bypasses the stepdown resistor circuit to supply the coil 12v just while the engine is cranking just like Rohan described earlier. Ask if it's there when you by it.
http://www.lotuselan.net/publish/lsb_cold_start_coil.shtml

You kinda have to the transformation all at once. The starter, alternator, switching from positive to negative earth and having tachometer rewired and removing the old solenoid and voltage regulator. The only long leadtime item is having the tachometer done if you have to ship it off somewhere. That usually takes two weeks to get it back even if you pester them. None of this is hard to do but you'd better plan ahead and know the procedure dead cold. BIG puffs of smoke erupt from the loom otherwise.

If you want your car to be really reliable then this is way to go. Make sure you follow my instructions to get cool air to backside of the alternator and heat shield it from the exhaust or it will die within six months most probably.

[chicagojeff]

2 huge pieces of advice I can offer wrt installing the starter:

the hardest thing is getting to the top side bolt that holds on the starter. Use a socket extension of about 12 to 16" . Get in on from the front of the car, then crawl underneath and crank it from the underside so you have good torque.

second, when you put on the new starter, attach the bottom bolt first, swing the starter up into place, and then prceed to put in the top bolt. Otherwise, you can't hold up the starter while you're working. And, you dont want to drop it, because it'll break some rods on the way down. Or, will crush your face or fingers.

another plus of the replacement is that it is about 5-10 pounds lighter.

Jeff

[Hamish Coutts]

Thanks Keith & Jeff.

Your wisdom and comments are noted for future use.

Regards,

Hamish.

[chicagojeff]

Fired up on the first try in winter in Chicago! The reduction starter is lghter, no grinding, and has massive amounts of torque. I can heartily recommend it. The wiring requires a little bit of thinking, because you can re-use the existing solenoid, or on most of these, use the solenoid mounted right on the new starter motor. I chose to use the old solenoid, which requires making a little jumper cable to connect the battery lead and the solenoid spade connector.

thanks to Keith, Ray at Rdent, and everyone else. Jeff