Electric headlight conversion

[RichardHawkins]

Mike,

It is many years since I converted my S4 Elan to electric pop up lights. I can’t really remember how I did this, but spent so long in the scrap yard that I became friends with the owner. If I remember correctly the position of the mounting bracket for the retractor is crucial. I understand that the access is difficult, but as suggested above try the system with the pods disconnected, your overload/stall could be due to having the retractor in the wrong position.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins

[The Veg]

That looks like the kit that I bought around three years ago and just installed two weeks ago, with some minor differences. The stuff in the control box is bigger now, and there's a potentiometer in there that you can turn with your fingers, and a fuse inside the box too that should be all the system needs although I don't know the capacity of it (glass type).

All of the above advice is good.

I didn't encounter any operational difficulties except for where to connect the blue wire*, and the system worked as it should whenever I tested it with voltage applied to the wires. I do wonder if perhaps your motor was damaged by the previous owner during the attempted install. I was very apprehensive about doing damage to mine due to not having the mechanical bits in perfect alignment so I rotated it through by hand several times before applying any power- maybe your PO didn't do that?

I would start by checking the motor without the linkage connected. If you apply power to the blue wire, the motor should turn 180 degrees, then when power is removed from the blue wire, it should turn another 180 degrees in the same direction.

Then with the motor installed and the linkage connected but no power connected, rotate the whole system by hand to ensure that nothing is binding or catching.

If those those two tests do not individually reveal any faults but once the system is fully assembled and connected the motor still doesn't complete the job and/or blows fuses, then I would think that the motor is defective.


*My blue wire situation, for anybody in the future who does a search on these kits and may have a similar problem:

The car is a 1970 federal Plus 2, non-S, and the headlight system is the early non-failsafe type with vacuum-valve behind the dashboard.

I found no point anywhere in the headlight system that produced 12V whenever the lights were on and not when the lights were off, as strange as that sounds. There is even a point of power-interruption when switching between beams. I had to resort to using a manual switch to activate the motor, but luckily I have a spare switch in the dashboard: the REAR SCREEN switch, since my rear screen is not actually equipped with any heating elements. So two manual actions to turn on & deploy the lights, and three to undo (unless I shut the car off, then two). Could be worse.

[2tmike]

Thanks Barney, it confirms how its presently wired. Do you have an additional line fuse before the Spyder unit or do you rely on the fuse in the car's fuseboard ?

[2tmike]

Thanks for all the good advice and I'll be testing with the motor to operating bar disconnected as soon as possible (hernia op yesterday so not up to reaching deep into the nose cone !! )

[Barney]

Thanks Barney, it confirms how its presently wired. Do you have an additional line fuse before the Spyder unit or do you rely on the fuse in the car's fuseboard ?

I have an additional fuse in it, but I had to employ an auto electrician to overcome my positive earth setup so I cannot be trusted to give any more detail, as he left me wondering where all the angry pixies were going

[Bigbaldybloke]

I made my own system similar to the Spyder one but without the PWM unit and have found the speed to be fine and the wiring much simpler. The motor needs a permanent power and earth supply, my permanent supply goes via a 15a fuse and has not been a problem. As stated by others the limit switches in the motor unit control the motor so that with the signal wire energised it does half a revolution and with the power off the signal wire it continues the revolution and returns to the start position. Beware of your fingers, it’s fast and powerful. As the arm does a circular motion and the linkage almost a straight one it accelerates the pod up to max speed at mid travel and slows down as it approaches full travel. Mine is adjusted to just touch the end travel stops on the pods at full travel in each direction. Mine does have the red knob for manual operation of the motor and I used this the do a final check on the linkage adjustment before making the final connection of the linkage to the pod. In case of problems I can pull the main motor supply fuse and wind the pod up manually using the red knob on the motor.
My car did have some small cracks in the nose cone from the corner of the pod opening so this area has been reinforced with effectively some fibreglass angle strip bonded in to strengthen the area. I use one motor and one spring and the linkage between the pods as in the later failsafe system. The signal to bring the pods up is taken from the dashboard mounted headlamp switch so that when the headlamps are switched on it energises the motor signal, this is from the same terminal on the switch that feed power to the dip switch.

[2tmike]

Problem understood ....but not solved !!! Motor now works, headlamp pods move freely but the motor cannot cope with the strength of the spring fitted. With the spring disconnected lights rise and fall OK except the damping effect of the spring is needed to prevent them moving in an uncontrolled way. The spring can be fitted (just) with the lights in a raised position but the resistance they offer as the motor tries to lower the lights must be huge. I'm not sure where this spring came from or if its even the right one. 'As is' I can't see it working.

[The Veg]

It's possible that you have the wrong spring. My car's vacuum-pod had two springs attached, both the same basic design but one was thicker and much stiffer than the other. Only the thinner one would fit in the hole on the motor-mount, and that one could be easily manipulated by hand and seems to provide the right amount of damping. I can measure the diameter of my springs if it will help.

[2tmike]

Yes, if you wouldn't mind that would be very helpful.

[2tmike]

If I've got the wrong spring I'm wondering if this might be the way to go instead. Need to check the actual open/closed lengths possible on the car first. 50N strut seems like it could be about right ?

[RichardHawkins]

Mike,

I am not sure that a spring is necessary. If I remember correctly the MX5 in the scrap yard that I cannibalised didn’t have any springs.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins

[disquek]

I made a system using a Miata motor and a PWM controller too. It works wonderfully. I doubt anyone watching the light go up or down would know the difference and I dont have to be annoyed when the lights creep their way up over time.

I did not use a spring. I looked into it. But it wasn't needed.

On a Miata the linkage and pivots are precise enough that there is no slop. So no spring needed.

On an Elan the pivots are quite sloppy and one of the spring's functions is to keep the pods at one end of the slop.

I found that even without the spring, it was good enough that the slop wasn't an issue.

I might think about finding a light weight coil extension spring to provide a small amount of force to keep the slop in check.

-Kyle

[Bigbaldybloke]

The spring is to counterbalance the weight of the pod to minimise the force the actuator needs to apply, so I think you have your spring acting in the wrong direction. The spring should still allow the pods to close under gravity but only just. Hope that’s clear, basically it assists the opening action. Mine Mazda motor is strong enough to operate the pods up and down without the spring but I have kept it as it’s kinder on the motor and it’s gearbox. I only have one spring to assist both headlights.

[The Veg]

My apologies for not getting back sooner! Life’s been busy. Anyway, one spring is 4mm diameter and the other is 5mm. The 4mm one fits the hole in the motor-mount so that’s the one I used. It’s significantly less-stiff than the 5mm spring and seems to be made of a different alloy.

[2tmike]

Thanks for the info. I think the system would work with the 4mm spring but I've decided to go for originality and put a vacuum system on. All connected up and tested OK just waiting for a new solenoid valve to come tomorrow to complete the install and then on to the next job.......