Starter Motor (Again!)

[fatal3rror]

[quote="Sploder90"]I got a WOSP starter from TTR a lot easier and lighter to fit & turns over a treat. Even easier to get to the upper bolt.
If you need a motor while you are awaiting delivery from Sue I have the one that came of mine that I can lend you to try. Was working when it came off and has been boxed up under the bench since last year.

Not far away from you in extra locked down Huddersfield part of the new Kirklees, Calderdale & NW England super Leper colony.
Although heavy I can probably throw it to you within the social distancing rules or meet in a pub

Mel
S3 DHC[/quote

All sorted now but thanks for the offer, very kind!

[Sploder90]

No problem glad to hear you are sorted out

Regards
Mel

[tonyabacus]

Glad you got sorted, but for those who may read at a later date.

The original starters are okay if they are looked after together with good connections throughout the starting circuit. They are pretty easy to work on and check over, having removed the unit take off the end cover carefully and check the commutator and brushes. Usually after a few years use they are full of junk, so a good clean out, check the bearings and brushes, clean the commutator with some sandpaper (not too rough). Use a sharp edge to clear the gaps in the commutator, reassemble and check all the connections as you go and perhaps a splash of paint to the body and good to go for a few years more.

As MarkDa said earlier it does help starting if there is electronic ignition, good coil, plugs and a good battery, but most of all a good earth system. If you haven't seen your engine earth lead for a while, now is a good time to revisit it and clean up the connections. In fact I have two earth straps to give things a fighting chance (remember its a fibreglass car where the earth strap is even more important than normal). You won't save any weight or have a fancy looking starter but you will save yourself a goodly sum of cash. And its a job well within the capabilities of an Elan owner!
Tony

[MarkDa]

When checking earths don't forget the cable in the boot.
After putting in a new subframe (chassis) I had a decent earth to start with but after a while starter performance dropped off.
I checked the tightness of the earth cable nut and it was fine.
However the body had settled a bit and because the fixing bolts go into threaded bobbing the bolt head was no longer in close contact with frame
A couple of twists of a spanner and contact was restored then retightening the nut in the boot finished the job.

I too have a couple of engine earths at mounting brackets - fwiw I prefer cables to braids (neater and no corrosion)

[Sploder90]

Agree with the earths
I also put an extra one on the starter side of the block to the frame. Something I used to do on Landies as well. Belt & braces.

Solenoid connections can come loose...
Remove leads, nip up the first nut & then refit the leads.
solenoids can also pack up / break down and are fairly easy and cheap to swap. Also check condition of the thin wire (W/R?) and it's connections.
Have had past "starter" issues that were linked to the ignition switch or if you have a 12v battery master / cut out switch added to the circuit check that.. They don't last for ever if used frequently

Make sure everything is clean, secure / tight... & that top bolt you think you have just nipped up may well be a bell housing bolt
And remember Joe Lucas

[pharriso]

When checking earths don't forget the cable in the boot.......

I checked the tightness of the earth cable nut and it was fine.
However the body had settled a bit and because the fixing bolts go into threaded bobbing the bolt head was no longer in close contact with frame

This is a terrible design! I wasn't getting a good ground on several circuits recently.. finally traced to the main earth in the trunk.

When you tighten the top nut you are loosening the clamping force between the body bobbin & chassis used to ground everything. After looking at the design I drilled through the bobbin & added a nyloc nut up top to "pull" everything together.

[The Veg]

I gave the main earth some attention not long ago and made extra-sure to clean the living snot out of it! All earths depend on this one so it's going to have the best contact that it can.

[mbell]

I now airways tighten the bolt into the bobbin and then tighten the nut with spanner still on the bolt head under the car, rather than just tighten the nut in the car.

This and general clean up of connections and use of start washers, seems to have improved my cold start a lot.

[pharriso]

I now airways tighten the bolt into the bobbin and then tighten the nut with spanner still on the bolt head under the car, rather than just tighten the nut in the car..

You must have very long arms!

[mbell]

You must have very long arms!

You just have to give the car a big hug and maybe a quick kiss on the bumper.

Either that or just cycle between tightening the top and bottom until both are fully tight.

[Bigbaldybloke]

I got a reconditioned Lucas motor, fitted a new 9 tooth bendix assembly and had already fitted a new ring gear on the flywheel. Works just fine.

[2cams70]

Use a sharp edge to clear the gaps in the commutator

If memory serves me correctly the instruction from the workshop manual is to undercut the insulation between the segments on generator armatures only and not starter motor ones. Starter motor brushes release a material that is conductive, adhesive and sticky as they wear. If it collects between the segments it could cause conduction between segments and slow cranking.

[ericbushby]

2 cams, you are quite right.
One of my duties as an electrical apprentice at Mullards was to overhaul starter motors and dynamos for everyone in the engineering department, that was 150 skilled men. Those were the days when Britain could make anything.
Someone would arrive late with a bundle under his arm and it had to be repaired before dinner time to be fitted back on the car in the car park. I did about one a week.
I knew not to undercut the starter com, but never new why it was different to dynamos, thanks.
Eric in Burnley
1967 S3SE DHC

[Sploder90]

And there goes me blowing my own trumpet about good earths and then I get a sudden attack of darkness..
Boot earth cable being removed and refitted tonight.. wiggle wiggle and the best tell tale I have (interior light with the door ajar) comes back on.

Anyone got a pic of the cable route to the earth mounting on an S3 as not entirely convinced that mine is "factory" ?