Anyone try to rebuild a Lucas remote solenoid?

[Sea Ranch]

Truth, Bill! It's been many years since I've had a car with a remote starter solenoid and I've missed the convenience of engine turnover, with or without ignition on.

And our cars have the solenoid on the intake side of the engine bay so we can operate the push button with one hand and the throttle linkage with the other; double the convenience

[bob_rich]

Hi again Randy

Just another though if the solenoid coil is shot but the push button works then an option would be to swop out for a more readily available non push button starter solenoid. Then keep the old push button one fit it conveniently under the bonnet ( hood?) it so that the push button be used energize the new solenoid directly to turn over the engine . Then you would retain the very useful feature of the push button starter for service operations I never like to junk things if I can avoid it!!

best of luck

Bob

[robertverhey]

Those old push button solenoids were probably superseded because too many mechanics were breaking their legs when pushing the button while car still in gear.....

[skelteanema]

Many years ago I owned a Mini which had an intermittant starting problem which was due to solenoid issues. , As I was a student and strapped for cash, I did dismantle and try and repair the push button solenoid to try and fix the problem. I suceeded in making an intermittant problem into a permanent one, and ended up buying a replacement solenoid. When my Lotus was having a similar intermittant starting problems, also due to the solenoid, I initially replaced the solenoid with a non-push button type, which served me well for several years. Since then I found some push button ones for sale on e-bay for a reasonable price and now have that in place with a non-push button one as a spare.

[neilsjuke]

Drill a 3mm hole in plastic opposite small lucar and wash out with switch cleaner and or I.P.A (not the beer) whilst pushing the button
Neil

[Sea Ranch]

Lovely to see such interest in this little topic; awesome to find such tech support from you all. This forum is SUPER! (Thanks, Bob, Robert, Skittle and Neil for your observations and stories!!)

Here's my own story so far:
*Alternator working well (put some new parts in recently, shows 14v on the guage)
*Battery is less than a year old
*Been starting and running fabulously
*Then one day the remote starter solenoid started doing that "machine gun" rattling when trying to start and that was that. Put my hand on the solenoid while the ignition key was turned to confirm that it was indeed the solenoid that was doing the rattling.
*Replaced the solenoid, cleaned all terminals to solenoid; same symptoms.
*Recharged the battery; same symptoms.
*Cleaned battery terminals; same symptoms.
*Cleaned starter terminal, re-tightened; same symptoms.
*Used another battery and jumper cables to apply power to battery side of solenoid; car starts with ignition key and with little jumper on solenoid from battery-side terminal to center/ignition terminal.
*Pulled the car's battery from trunk, brought up to engine bay and used jumper cables to solenoid battery-side terminal (and ground to engine); starter turns over from ignition switch and solenoid (slowly; presumably because the jumper connections are not the best) (but at least not the rattling).

At this point I'm thinking the only possible culprit is the connection from battery in trunk to solenoid. Which means either the cable itself is suspect or the terminals at one or both ends.

*Cleaned, renewed battery clamp to cable connection (then the battery clamp broke - it's apparently old).

So I will be cleaning/renewing battery-cable connection and solenoid-cable connection later today. Hopefully this will deliver power again and there isn't some other problem lurking.

Question: how's my logic? Have I missed anything????

Thanks,

Randy

[Sea Ranch]

Replying to my own post. But at least I may save someone the trouble of trying to untangle my work

Thought all I had to do was replace the solenoid, but as I mentioned above, that was not the case. Good news is that the readily available Chinese-made unit is a very good knock-off of my original Lucas part, and it's even got the terminals oriented the same way relative to the mounting ring/tabs (which is spot-welded onto the solenoid body and does not rotate) (the original Lucas doesn't either).



What I did do today after work was visit the local Lordco shop and buy a couple different battery clamps to replace my positive terminal clamp which broke in two pieces yesterday when I cleaned the cable to clamp connection and reinstalled it . . . the casting was badly corroded in two places and came apart quite easily . . .



Cleaned up the battery cable to ground surfaces, fastener, etc., put it all back together and lo . . . everything works, with sufficient power to operate solenoid properly - from ignition key or push button. Smiles all around. (Dig the unusual quick-release clamp on the negative terminal: marine application? Seems to work well, though!)



Thanks again for insights and conversation!!

Randy

[billwill]

Ah yes, I was about to say that having the solenoid rattle implies that as soon as the starter motor takes enough current the voltage drops to below the level that enables the solenoid to hold in, so it drops out & that stops the motor current, so it pulls in again.

All this implies that you are losing too many volts between the battery & the solenoid, either in the earth circuit or the main lead.

Which is what you discovered.

QED

Ain't hindsight marvellous.

[Sea Ranch]

Well . . . thank you for that (hind)sightful comment, Bill!!!

Not quite enough current to keep the relay's contacts together, yet they presumably "bounce" at high speed and make that rattling, machine-gun sound.

With contacts and clamps, etc., renewed, the starter positively jumps into action. And motor has always been great for easy starting anyway.

Now if you could apply your hind-sightfulness to my noisy-rattling transmission and/or shift linkage, Bill!

post141954.html#p141954

[billwill]

>Not quite enough current to keep the relay's contacts together, yet they presumably "bounce" at high speed and make that rattling, machine-gun sound.

Yes, I've had it before when the battery is nearly flat.


>Now if you could apply your hind-sightfulness to my noisy-rattling transmission and/or shift linkage, Bill!


On that one I haven't a clue.

On my car I do get a rattle from the exhaust pipe touching the gearbox at certain speeds or conditions.

[skelteanema]

Hi Sea Ranch,

so are you saying that there wasn't a problem with the original solenoid at all, and the issue was with the wiring to the solenoid, or was it an accumulation of many problems including solenoid and wiring? If it wasn't the solenoid, then you can put the original back in and keep the shiny one as a spare!!

[Sea Ranch]

Exactly, Skittle. I try to keep the purchases down to a minimum and rebuild/repair whenever I can. But this one snuck up on me!!!

I have not yet re-fitted the original solenoid to test it because I'm sorting out an attachment method. The original mounting used "sheet metal" thread screws into the fiberglass. The holes are now so large that even screws a couple sizes up from original are not gripping, so I have to look for some more secure system. Trouble is, the other side of the firewall at this location is not really accessible so need some sort of one-sided installation still.

[Sea Ranch]

Funny story in this on-going saga of what should have been a simple issue . . .

Drove my car all weekend, no problems. Went to start up this morning to go to work and the shiny new solenoid I just put in a week ago locked up in the "on" position: when I turned the key, the car started but the secondary/high current side stayed "closed", contacts together, and of course the starter motor continued to spin at high speed.

By the time I popped the bonnet and figured out what was going on, then popped the boot, threw out the flooring and disconnected the battery (thank goodness for quick disconnect terminals!!), I had literally smoked the starter motor.

Called work to tell them I'd be late, then swapped in the old solenoid for the new one and off I went.

Before removing the new unit, I disconnected the ignition "supply" connection from the new solenoid and touched the battery cable back to the battery terminal to see if the issue might have been a short in the ignition switch's starter position, etc. But sure enough, with the ignition supply disconnected from the solenoid, as soon as the battery cable was touched back to the battery, the starter was engaged again (and I was thankful the starter was still willing to turn after that horrific high-speed free run!).

And now I have an answer for Skittle: yes, the old solenoid still works and no, I can't keep the new one as a backup

And beautiful Chinese-made low-cost Lucas solenoid reproductions are occasionally defective

I've never run into or heard of this "failure mode" for a solenoid, but it's a bad one because of the damage it can do to (more expensive) starter motors!

Randy

[billwill]

Hmmm, perhaps the high-current contacts welded themselves together.

Was that one of the ?16.80 from mini-sports?

[Sea Ranch]

Allow me to clarify; I didn't mean the replacement solenoid is "bad", rather this particular fail mode is "bad".

I have no reason to believe that all these replacement solenoids are poorly constructed, only because I don't normally draw those kinds of conclusions from a single personal or anecdotal experience. Any manufactured "bit" can have an occasional defect among the lot.

As for who makes this particular "bit", I can't tell you, as it came in an unlabeled plastic bag, though it looks just like what you can see supplied by a number of sellers in Britian and online, complete with the same selection of connectors and fasteners. My part was purchased from the longtime British car parts/service supplier in Vancouver, BC, Canada (here comes the plug: Octagon Motors!) and they have already told me they would refund, which is pretty impressive considering the standard retail policy for automotive "electrical" parts is "no refund, no exchange". So hurray for Octagon; this part was clearly defective.

Having said all that, this evening, with the replacement solenoid on my bench at home, the battery-to-starter connection reads open, and momentarily closed when you push the push-button; which is how it's supposed to be. So apparently the secondary/high current contacts did not weld together, the spring did not jam or seize permanently. But could I ever re-install this solenoid in my car ever again? No, never. Having once failed to open when the key was released and power cut to the primary side, I can never again trust it to not subject my starter windings to that kind of thrashing.

It's just strange to me to see this "failure mode". I've only ever seen or heard of solenoids failing to make the connection, the worst result being you have to get out and bump start the car to get home. This part stayed closed for at least 10 minutes (the time it took me to disconnect the battery, test the ignition supply circuit a couple times, call work, etc) before I removed it and parked it unceremoniously on the ground.

Wish I could offer more insight into the quality of Chinese-made replacement Lucas solenoids. I only have experience with one.

Randy