Wanted +2 Sidelight photo's + Sketch if possible

[mikealdren]

Dave,
Like the others, I thought you were suggesting the latest boy racer upgrade which would make the car look more like a Christmas tree.

If I understand correctly, you are suggesting using a single (or group of)LED to replace each of the old bulbs to give a better, single bulb solution and get rid of the need for re-using the old bulb holder.

Am I right in thinking that the aim is to look the same from the outside.

Mike

[Tintin]

The point would be that if the led option was incorporated in the basic casting you would not have to remove the old bulb holder from the old casting and fit it into the proposed new casting.

And why should I want to design a part which has an interface to a much simpler part which is easy to change? That way I would no longer be able to chose between "old and new style" aka "bulb holder" vs. "LED holder".

An for every +2 within the EU your proposed LED would not be road legal AFAIK anyway. Mine is in the EU or to be precise in Germany so it's verboten to put LEDs in place of bulbs on cars.

This way a complete new unit could be supplied and not just a base casting needing the addition of the old bulb holder.

If it would mean only an LED version IMHO this is pointless, people who want or need originality couldn't use it - and that is probably the majority.

The extra cost at the point of manufacture would be minimal and a ready to go unit could be supplied.

I'm restoring and Zetec-ing my car right now, sorry, but I couldn't care less about someting ready-to-go.....

Honestly, if somebody wants to use LEDs in this casting it's not that much of a big deal and there is a number of ways to do it - the easiest is as I said is get a LED cluster with a bulb fitting and put it into the original receptacle.

Why remove the old dodgy bulb holder which is staked/riveted in place and try to fit back to the new casting by the same method when by a simple mod to the original design you can have led side and indicator lights ready to go?

...and not have the possibility of an original replacement anymore.

I guess I have not been explaining this very well.
Regards
Dave

Your probably have, I just don't agree with you, that's all. IMHO a standard casing makes much more sense as you could put both a LED and a standard bulb in it by changing the tiny small actual part which would carry both.



Tim

[Dave-M]

[quote="mikealdren"]
If I understand correctly, you are suggesting using a single (or group of)LED to replace each of the old bulbs to give a better, single bulb solution and get rid of the need for re-using the old bulb holder.

Am I right in thinking that the aim is to look the same from the outside.

Mike[/quote]

That was exactly what I was saying Mike, the suggestion was to do away with the l/h & r/h bulb holder and replace them with a mounting incorporated in the casting to accept led units.
The thinking being, that this could easily be done at the design stage and the units Peter is proposing would then be plug and play rather than needing diy to make them work. They would look exactly the same as the original item and probably work better and for longer than the original.

Tintin,
I don't quite get you point regarding originality as these new castings will not be "original" anyway. and the original Lucas bulb holder is NLA so why not upgrade? it will not be visible anyway.
Buying a ready to use item would be preferable to trying to remove the old and possibly corroded item and refitting it to a new casting. (imo)
Zetec! originality??
Regards
Dave

[bcmc33]

Having watched this thread from the beginning and seeing how it?s developed, the one question I have ? why were the sidelights handed in the first place?

The point about making a standard bulb fitment makes sense, what I don?t understand is the debate about LED or standard bulbs ? surely the fitment is the same.

Apart from headlights and ignition light, all the bulbs in my car are LEDs due to the fact that they will last longer than any of our lifetimes and give better quality luminosity.

Regarding originality ? are cars in concourse competitions taken apart to see if the old crappy bulbs of the 60?s are fitted?

My view is that all our cars should look visually original on the outside simply for nostalgic reasons, but on the inside should encompass any newer technology we can afford in memory of CABC.


Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint)

[Tintin]

I don't quite get you point regarding originality as these new castings will not be "original" anyway.

Okay, but then no remanufactured replacement part would be original and we would all hunt down NOS. Sounds great.

and the original Lucas bulb holder is NLA so why not upgrade?

It could also be remanufactured.

it will not be visible anyway.
Buying a ready to use item would be preferable to trying to remove the old and possibly corroded item and refitting it to a new casting. (imo)

Nobody said that that "old and possibly corroded item" would be refitted.

Zetec! originality??

a) I'll try to keep it as original as possible from the outside and concerning the interior. There is a hood covering the engine and I will use centre locks. And that's all I have to add to any talk about Zetec vs. originality....okay, apart from the probably horrifying fact that I was briefly playing with the though of using a Toyota engine instead of the Zetec...

b) Which part of "verboten" shall I explain a little further? I simply could not use an LED side light on the streets here in Germany, it would make the car illegal unless we'd get an E stamp with all the associated paper stuff. No thanks, I can live with bulbs.

c) It is not only my car these things would be used on.




Tim

[mikealdren]

Brian,
It's a very good question, I'm not sure that the handing makes any difference in practice.
regards
Mike

[bcmc33]

Tintin,

Interesting to discuss ?E? approvals ? I am guessing that the only parts that have ?E? approvals on my car are the new headlamps and halogen bulbs, but of course, no European homologation to use them.

My car has somewhere in the region of 30 known modifications from standard ? all of which are logged and accepted by my insurance company. The thought that they may be illegal because only two of them are covered by the ?E? approval did not cross my mind ? I would expect the insurance company to advise if that were the case as they give me full European cover.

Specifically, does any of this mean that I should be very careful if I drive my car in Germany?


Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint)

[Tintin]

Tintin,

Interesting to discuss “E” approvals – I am guessing that the only parts that have “E” approvals on my car are the new headlamps and halogen bulbs, but of course, no European homologation to use them.

My car has somewhere in the region of 30 known modifications from standard – all of which are logged and accepted by my insurance company.

In Germany major mods to a vehicle must be officially approved and either included in the titleor come with a general operating licence. The insurance doesn't care unless the value of the car is altered.

In most cases this is not huge problem, especially on old vehicles. My Norton has lots of mods and the Spyder-Zetec stuff will be difficult but not impossible in terms of approval.

However lights are a completly different game here in Germany. If they don't have E nos. the will not be accepted - unless they are original equipment for a vehicle which had a general operating license in Germany at the time of registration of the vehicle in question. And to my knowledge LED side lights were not a standard fitment in the seventies. Period, at least for the TUeV. LEDs differ in the radiation pattern, colour temp, whatever. Academic stuff for mortals, food for burecracy over here. It's a huge problem to put a self designed 12V LED lightning system on a bicycle over here.

The thought that they may be illegal because only two of them are covered by the “E” approval did not cross my mind – I would expect the insurance company to advise if that were the case as they give me full European cover.

Insurancecompanies want to get your fees and don't want to pay you any coverage unless they have to - and illegal parts on car have been the subject under which insurance companies tried to get away without paying countless times allready. I would not rely on any advice by them in this case.

Specifically, does any of this mean that I should be very careful if I drive my car in Germany?

As your car probably doesn't sport a German no. plate probably not. I don't exactly know what is the case with foreign cars but I would doubt that you'd have to fear drastic consequences. On the other hand it depends on the situation, on the Norton I have been stopped by the police several times because of the rear light. It's legal because it was on this model back in the 60ies and Dominators where imported to Germany however that didn't stop some police officiers to give me sh*t simply just because the didn't know better.


Tim

[pmallinson]

Just a Quick note from the originator and 'hopefully' the supplier of these replacement parts

THEY WILL BE AS ORIGINAL ONES ( Emoticon's depending on your point of view)

I have read all the very exciting and interesting points of view on this but decided that for me (& obviously some of you) ORIGINALITY is an issue, IF the remainder of you want to convert to LED's then you can OR maybe one of you wants to get some LED versions made ?

I have already done a lot of 'leg work' emailing, telephoning and generally pestering of people to try and get this off the ground and now it is getting 'air-born' I do not wish to restart my efforts and change what I thought was a half reasonable plan.

IF things go to plan now and I will hopefully have my Cad drawing in about 4 weeks, then its off to China with that, maybe 1 week (I always was optimistic ) for a quote then decide if its viable by telling YOU the buying public (albeit a very select bunch ) the approx cost they are going to be.
The response will determine IF I go through with this or if WE have to pay the 'other suppliers' price which we seem to agree is extortion ?

I wish only to help and to recover my costs which will (if we go ahead) include FREE sets of 2 sidelight frames all finished to those who have help with sample supply and the Cad drawing etc + a set for yours truly. (surely you cannot deny me the right to a set )

Will be back hopefully in about 5 or 6 weeks on this topic so watch out for the next installment

cheers

[ppnelan]

...12V LED lightning system...

Sounds dangerous...

Matthew

[Tintin]

...12V LED lightning system...

Sounds dangerous...

Matthew

Hey,I'm not a native speaker of English so what....

However I think a 12V lighning would be anything but dangerous.



Tim

[john.p.clegg]

Peter
Are these going to be in some kind of monkey metal or plastic "plasti-chromed" ? Prefer the latter myself....
John

[pmallinson]

John / All

The ones in Britain were planned to be gunmetal and chromed I have not given up on these yet as maybe the offer of a cad drawing will help there also , the ones in the far east we haven't got to that stage yet !

They need the cad drawing to their inbox before they will quote and tell me minimum numbers etc, the company actually make some good quality aluminium castings for all sorts of things so we'll see where we go when I have more info.

I will of course consult with elanweb people before placing an order anyway as although I do need some for my car I really would not like to have 200 pairs in my garage

Cheers

[greg.harvey]

Hmm, I could do with one of these. Well, I either need a new one, or I need to drill out the screw which has snapped off in the hole of the one I have!

I hadn't gotten around to seeing how much Matty's (or similar) might want for such a part. I'm guessing, and judging by the very existence of this thread, you simply can't get new ones at the moment from anyone?

Except now YOU, Peter?!

[mikealdren]

Greg,

Matty's do them but at a price: ?149! John's is a good point, the original Monkey Metal (Mazak) parts do corrode very badly and very quickly unless very well looked after.

Brass may be a cheaper solution than Bronze, cheaper to buy and easier to cast and plate.

Mike