Brise Starters
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Post by: alaric » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:18 am
Hi all.
Here I am awake again - good old jet lag...
Martin, the description in that article is just what I had concluded was in the Brise unit, so i was very pleased with it.
It is a very nice little starter motor, and it certainly delivers the torque even from a low battery. I wanted a pre-engaged one, however, and am frustrated that despite my efforts I have ended up with a different solution and a question mark over the ring gear.
All the best.
Sean.
Here I am awake again - good old jet lag...
Martin, the description in that article is just what I had concluded was in the Brise unit, so i was very pleased with it.
It is a very nice little starter motor, and it certainly delivers the torque even from a low battery. I wanted a pre-engaged one, however, and am frustrated that despite my efforts I have ended up with a different solution and a question mark over the ring gear.
All the best.
Sean.
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Post by: rgh0 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:23 am
Never seen a Brise starter but it appears from earlier descriptions that is is a preengage unit.
If the Brise pinion moves out and into engagement without spinning at high speed by connection of current to a solenoid connection that drives the pinion out and switches on the main current then the Brise unit is a "preengage" starter as described by Matty. Inertia starters require the unit to have the main cable connected and to spin at high speed to get the inertia effect to drive the pinion into postion along the shaft helix.
The other part of the description by Matty is "reduction" which implies the unit has a gear reduction gearbox built in that increases the torque applied (and enables a smaller higher speed starter electic motor with lower current draw for the same cranking speed). Most modern Japanese starters do this by offseting the motor from the drive pinion to fit in the gear train. If the Brise starter drive pinion is central it implies a planetary reduction gear train has been used if it is truely also a "reduction" starter. If you turn the pinon by hand you should be able feel the resistance of the gear train trying to spin the motor armature faster to confirm it is a "reduction" starter also.
Rohan
If the Brise pinion moves out and into engagement without spinning at high speed by connection of current to a solenoid connection that drives the pinion out and switches on the main current then the Brise unit is a "preengage" starter as described by Matty. Inertia starters require the unit to have the main cable connected and to spin at high speed to get the inertia effect to drive the pinion into postion along the shaft helix.
The other part of the description by Matty is "reduction" which implies the unit has a gear reduction gearbox built in that increases the torque applied (and enables a smaller higher speed starter electic motor with lower current draw for the same cranking speed). Most modern Japanese starters do this by offseting the motor from the drive pinion to fit in the gear train. If the Brise starter drive pinion is central it implies a planetary reduction gear train has been used if it is truely also a "reduction" starter. If you turn the pinon by hand you should be able feel the resistance of the gear train trying to spin the motor armature faster to confirm it is a "reduction" starter also.
Rohan
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Post by: alaric » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:36 am
still awake with this time zone difference malarky...
When I turn the gear by hand it turns the armature in one direction but not the other, so there's a clutch system in there as per a normal pre-engaged starter. Also, the armature does seem quite hard to turn in the engaged direction and turns quickly, so I can believe that there's a planetary gear set up also.
On the pre-engaged bit, I tried the starter with the main current connected also, and there's quite a reaction torque, but it's hard to tell whether this is applied straightaway or once the drive wheel is out - could just be a fast operation. The manufacturer should know I guess - I'm planning to contact them for advice re the ring gear.
must try and get back onto GMT.
Sean.
When I turn the gear by hand it turns the armature in one direction but not the other, so there's a clutch system in there as per a normal pre-engaged starter. Also, the armature does seem quite hard to turn in the engaged direction and turns quickly, so I can believe that there's a planetary gear set up also.
On the pre-engaged bit, I tried the starter with the main current connected also, and there's quite a reaction torque, but it's hard to tell whether this is applied straightaway or once the drive wheel is out - could just be a fast operation. The manufacturer should know I guess - I'm planning to contact them for advice re the ring gear.
must try and get back onto GMT.
Sean.
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Post by: seaandmoor » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:04 pm
Hi,
I'll be finding myself in the same situation very shortly re starter motor and would be very useful to know from the manufacturer if the Brise is in fact a 'pre-engage' with reduction gear' OR not.
Do let us all know what you find out as soon as pos, or send me a PM. Thanks and best regards.
I'll be finding myself in the same situation very shortly re starter motor and would be very useful to know from the manufacturer if the Brise is in fact a 'pre-engage' with reduction gear' OR not.
Do let us all know what you find out as soon as pos, or send me a PM. Thanks and best regards.
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Post by: Hamish Coutts » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:32 pm
As far as I know the Brise is a gear reduction motor. I don't really care if it is a pre-engaged starter or not as long as the mechanical functionality is there. I.e. there is an 'easy' engagement with the flywheel and subsequent quick and torquey turning of the engine.
So far it has demonstrated all of that. If you read my previous posts about ignition and other starting problems where the Brise has preformed very well - and not flattened the battery, then I am a convert.
If I can got to the likes of SKYE next winter (I have a friend who has a croft there) and the engine still starts on a very cold frosty morning without either getting a jump start or heating the plugs with a blowlamp then I will be well satisfied.
FYI - I have left the car out a couple of times recently at home (a few miles west of Edinburgh). It started first turn of the key, both mornings, which were cold and raw. (about 34 deg C and drizzling - yuk!)
So far so good.
I will keep you posted.
Regards,
Hamish.
So far it has demonstrated all of that. If you read my previous posts about ignition and other starting problems where the Brise has preformed very well - and not flattened the battery, then I am a convert.
If I can got to the likes of SKYE next winter (I have a friend who has a croft there) and the engine still starts on a very cold frosty morning without either getting a jump start or heating the plugs with a blowlamp then I will be well satisfied.
FYI - I have left the car out a couple of times recently at home (a few miles west of Edinburgh). It started first turn of the key, both mornings, which were cold and raw. (about 34 deg C and drizzling - yuk!)
So far so good.
I will keep you posted.
Regards,
Hamish.
"One day I'll finish the restoration - honest, darling, just a few more years....."
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Hamish Coutts - Third Gear
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Post by: Hamish Coutts » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:49 am
Oops,
Not sure if SKYE has ever seen 34degC before even in a heat wave. I should have said 34degF.
Apologies,
Hamish.
Not sure if SKYE has ever seen 34degC before even in a heat wave. I should have said 34degF.
Apologies,
Hamish.
"One day I'll finish the restoration - honest, darling, just a few more years....."
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Hamish Coutts - Third Gear
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