Inoperable windows on Federal +2

[Richardsona39]

I was driving the other day and both driver and passenger electric windows quit working simultaneously. Driver side (left) is stuck down, passenger side is stuck up. Everything else appears to be working - wipers, lights exterior and interior, hazards, heater fan, door puddle lights. There's no clicking sound when I press the window switches (as in, I can't hear relays clicking - the switches themselves obviously have a click in their action)

Fuses look OK, and I've jiggled them to make sure they're seated.

Under the dash there are several loose wires, but I'm not sure which are window-related. I've tried plugging a couple into the double-wide plastic receptacles that had open holes, but those didn't help. (And I'm a novice with car wiring so I don't want to cause a short or overload by plugging things in too randomly). Pics attached showing the various loose wires and open receptacles by the driver's side door, driver's side on the center console (that big wad of wires that always bulges out there), and by the passenger's side door.

When I got into the car the other day to drive it, I did push the carpet flap that often hangs down there up so it wasn't dangling, so I was wondering if I might have dislogded something then. But I can't figure out what, or if the problem is somewhere else.

Anyone have some thoughts on what might have gone awry?
Thanks!

[alan.barker]

Hi Richard,
on the subject of Windows, on my Sprint the Windows go down with Ignition off. But to go up Ignition must be Switched on.
Alan

[512BB]

'Under the dash there are several loose wires, but I'm not sure which are window-related. I've tried plugging a couple into the double-wide plastic receptacles that had open holes, but those didn't help. (And I'm a novice with car wiring so I don't want to cause a short or overload by plugging things in too randomly)'

I am not great on wiring myself but that does not seem the most sensible thing to have done to me. I hope that on attempting your trial and error approach, if it did not cure the issue, you pulled those wires apart again.

Leslie

[Richardsona39]

Yes everything back as it was
Alan, the windows in my car have only ever worked when ignition is in accessory position, or engine is running.

[ncm]

The problem that you have with both windows failing to operate would suggest that you have lost power to the switches - there are no relays fitted as standard in the circuit. From your description of how they used to operate I will surmise that you have a 4-way fuse box as shown in the +2S 130 Federal wiring diagram (reference no. LSL211) in the workshop manual which suggests that power is supplied on an unfused yellow wire. Where is your fuse box? If it is in the engine bay then you may have a connector in the 'rats nest' that has been disturbed.

The unconnected red/white wires are shown on an earlier diagram as having no connection.

Brian.

[Richardsona39]

Awesome, thanks for digging that up Brian. I'll do some further investigation and report back. My fuse box is indeed 3 modules in the engine bay.

[ncm]

If by '3 modules' you mean that your car has 3 fuseboxes each containing 4 fuses then I'm lookihg at the wrong diagram....... in this case the power to the window switches comes from the 'centre' fuse box on a green wire.

The unused red/white is apparently for the door ashtray lamp..
Brian.

[Richardsona39]

With Brian pointing me in the right direction I looked around further still couldn't find a connection issue. So I went back to basics and investigated the fuses further, now I knew which one to look for. They all looked perfectly fine. But I swapped out the windows fuse with another one and voila, windows start working again! So that's a relief!

Most of my fuses are shown as 35 amp. I've seen some debate on the forum here about whether in the US that denotes the blow or continuous amperage (sounds like 17amps should be the continuous load, blowing at 35). When I'm looking at replacement fuses, all they list is a single amperage (for example https://mossmotors.com/168-308-fuse-set-35-amp-10-fuses?queryID=5e315f44b08e926183b8029cff7c37c7&objectID=277409&indexName=live_default_products), so I just want to make sure that
a) I'm getting the right one?
b) Do I need to replace the existing 35a ones?

Cheers

[shynsy]

Good find I have also had this happen when an otherwise normal looking fuse breaks down due to a manufacturing fault.
Tim

[alan.barker]

If you suspect a Fuse you should check with Multimeter. Never done electrics by just looking new to me.
Alan

[ncm]

Pleased that you have sorted the problem with the windows.
A cheap meter and a test lamp are a boon when chasing electrical faults..
May I suggest that you insulate the loose red/white cables as they will be live when the panel lights are on..
What colour is the wire on the loose connector on the side of the drivers footwell? Would it happen to be Brown/Purple? Do your windscreen washers work?


Brian.

[The Veg]

On the subject of windows, the very best thing you can do to ensure that they perform well is to run a large-gauge earth (ground) wire directly from the motors to the chassis. Don't go through all the connectors and dashboard wiring harness, just run the wires straight from the motors to the bolts on top of the tunnel behind the dashboard. make sure of course too that the battery earth-to-chassis connection is good and solid. This direct-earthing made my windows raise and lower with authority after the following items failed to improve things:

Replace wiring in doors.
Clean contacts inside switches.
Replace motors with rebuilt units.
Lubricate mechanisms.
Use battery power via relays instead of power from switches to motors.

[stugilmour]

Glad you found the fault.

Regarding motor draw and fuse capacity…

Although I use a revised loom with modern blade style fuses, the motors are rebuilt stock units. I found I needed to use 15 amp (blue) fuses for the separate window circuits to prevent blowing either (separate) fuses at motor stall. 10 amp (red) was sufficient for continuous running of one motor. Assuming both window circuits are supplied by the same fuse, 35 amp capacity may be required. IIRC my ‘69 Federal car (only one fuse box) used 35 amp.