Electric headlight conversion

[2tmike]

Can anyone with knowledge of the Spyder/Kelvedon/Other electric headlight lift kit help please? I have a plus 2 that the PO changed the vacuum system for an electric one and from looking at it is seems to very similar to the kit that Spyder and others sell. The installation was never completed properly and I'm trying to understand it and sort it out. Basically I think I've got it mounted and all lined up as well as its going to be and I can raise and lower the lights turning the motor with a small socket ( the red knob is missing). From the very basic instruction sheet I've been given it seems to be connected correctly although an linline fuse has been added to one feed. Should that fuse be there or should the system rely on the fused supply in the car and if so what should the rating be ? I've popped 5a and 7a mini blade fuses testing the system. Also, how should the motor react when it reaches full lift of the lights and they contact the bump stops? Is it current sensing to stop the motor ? Lastly, to retract, does the motor continue rotating in the same direction or does it reverse ? Sorry for the long essay but I need to get it sorted or swap to vac lift. Many thanks in advance, Mike

[Darek Brewin]

Hello, the wiring depends on the internal wiring of the lift motor. There are wiring diagrams for the Miata motors readily available online. Typically there are some position switches internal to the motor that you would wire to a set of relays so that the motor will spin (always in the same direction) and stop at the upper and lower position.

I got a lift motor for a Celica out of the auto wrecker for my installation and its wiring is different than a miata or 180sx motor.

Darek

[2tmike]

The kit on mine is based on an MX5 ( or Miata) lift motor with a custom built control box which I haven't opened up. I'm hoping someone with a Spyder system can share their knowledge to save hours trying to understand the wiring !!

[stugilmour]

Sounds like your previous owner assembled parts for the conversion. Although there are tons of archived threads describing various systems, it can get a bit confusing as the donor motors are very similar the exact wire colours change by make/model.

A few basic answers/points

• Motor rotates the same direction for raising and lowering pods.
• Be careful while testing, as you probably found they are extremely powerful motors.
• The motor housing contains a rotary position switch wired with diodes on the control wiring. This switch is the heart of the system control, but is shown differently in the various posted schematics. I have attached a link to my attempt, which is a PowerPoint file. Hopefully helps in understanding the internal diodes and the two position rotary switch. Note I have not updated the PowerPoint to show the PWM controller but that wiring is pretty simple and only effects the two larger gauge wires to the actual motor.
• If wired correctly the motor drive current is routed through a relay not the rotary switch. The rotary switch controls the relay coils.
• I also used a Celica motor. They are the same as the referenced Miata motors, but wire colours are different.
• I relied on my existing fuses for power supply to the motor and control circuits. That said, my car is completely rewired. If your loom is stock, separate fuses probably makes sense.
• The Spyder kit includes a motor controller. My homemade system did not originally use this. I would recommend including one as I have some fibreglass cracking around the pods from running the system without the pulse width modulator (PWM). Here is a thread that describes the appropriate PWM (available on eBay).

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=49391&start=15

• As I found out, the PWM controls the ground side of the motor supply. It will not work if you use a common ground for the motor supply. As this wire is not a pure ground, you may want to use a different wire colour from black.
• I would recommend running all of the required wires in a separate loom run to keep them separate stock loom. I used Orange wires with various trace colours to keep them separate from any of the stock Lotus colours.
• A stock spring is required in the system or the pod action will not be smooth. I think I included a part call-up for the appropriate spring in the thread above. I was able to mount the spring to my fabricated motor mount with a couple of drilled holes.
• Make sure you can access the manual motor knob easily in case you need it to get the lights up. Mine requires removal of the grille mesh to access, which seems OK.
• When wired correctly the pod will go to the retracted position automatically if the headlight switch is off and the knob is turned such that the position switch detects the pod is in the up position. I made sure I have a connector that can be unplugged that will allow the pods to stay in the up position with the headlight switch off position. The idea is if there is some kind of system failure I can manually raise the pods and leave them up independent from the position of the headlight switch. Upon reflection, this may be the purpose of the accessible inline fuse in your system? Is this fuse in the main power supply to the motor?
• A changeover relay is required that grounds the motor power supply wire when he position switch hits the up position. If the motor is not grounded the system has enough momentum to skip over the gap in the rotary switch plate and simply keep cycling up and down

Note there are a number of ways to skin this cat and the variants can get confusing. Having been thru the process it makes purchase of a complete kit look to be a pretty good value. That said it sounds like you have most of what you need already.

All the best and feel free to ask more questions.

Here are a few threads that contain my PowerPoint file for reference….

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=37727

HTH

Stu

PS. Was typing while you posted above. Perhaps post a few photos of whatever control box you have and someone may recognize it. I understand (from the various schematics I reviewed when I was trying to figure out a design) that he Miata system included a control module that may have accommodated flash to pass and maybe motor speed? I kinda got lost on that deal and ended up using a Celica donor.

[2tmike]

As far as I can see this is the system, as sold by Spyder and also looks to be the same as the Kelvedon one

[stugilmour]

Mike, to confirm the pictures are of the system you have and are trying to install? I may have misunderstood.

Cheers!

[2tmike]

This looks like it is the system that was part installed when I bought the car. I don't have a receipt to say positively that it is from Spyder but it certainly looks very much like it . It was not working and was not lined up well or headlamp pods set up properly when I got the car That bit I've done but the electrics are not playing ball

[Bud English]

Basically I think I've got it mounted and all lined up as well as its going to be and I can raise and lower the lights turning the motor with a small socket ( the red knob is missing).

You should be able to watch the complete up and down action by turning the manual knob in the same direction for the full cycle. The pod shouldn't hard stop against the bump stops, at either full up or down, enough to stop the travel when moving by hand. If it does, readjust the bump stops to clear pod travel. The bump stops should just stabilize the pod after the motor stops at full up or down. If the motor is stalling because of the stops it may be what's blowing the fuse.

[stugilmour]

Thanks Mike. I get what you have now. That definitely looks like the Spyder system. Their box contains the PWM and the control relay that are described above and in many of the home built systems. I would start by assuming everything in the provided loom and box is as it should be. Do you have a connection diagram for the system and have you checked it all?

Can you describe what the system actually does? Just an issue with the fuse blowing but the lights cycling correctly? Connection issue to confirm? Agree with Bud regarding stops and potentially stalling the motor.

Note the guy who designed/prototyped the system Spyder sells is on the forum. He will be better able to confirm connections etc. Hopefully Spyder Fan will be along shortly if you don’t get it sorted first.

Stu

[2tmike]

Yes I've cycled the lamps fully down, fully up and back down again by rotating the motor shaft and it seems ok mechanically.
There doesn't appear much to the connections required, a live taken via the feed to the original Lotus headlamp lift solenoid which comes from the light switch, a switched, fused live and an earth.( Mine is a late 130/5 with the dashboard switch operating a solenoid rather than directly turning vacuum on and off.)
All the magic apparently is done within the new light control box. When I've tried to operate the lights a couple of times they worked to lift part way but have never reached the top bump stops. I started with a 5A fuse and that blew immediately upped it to 7A with the same result and got partial movement before that blew. Just short of using a 6" nail, I put in a 20A and the lights lifted 3/4 up and stopped but the fuse did not blow but I powered it all of quite quickly as it was apparent that the full lift wasn't going to happen. Maybe a crap earth ? but I have no idea what the power draw should be on the Mazda motor

[mbell]

I think the Spyder system has a Pulse Width Modulator (PWN) in the design to reduce the speed of movement of the pods.

I would first ensure that the movement of the headlight pods is free and easy. As if they are physically jammed/stiff they will cause the motor to stall and pull max current.

I'd then check the operation of the lift motor/electronics with it disconnect from the pods.

Last, if they are all good, I'd also look for the PWM adjuster to see if you can increase the duty cycle (probably a knob that turns a variable resistor) to give a bit more power to help it lift the pods.

[2tmike]

Pods are 100% free and very easy to move but I haven't checked the motor operation with the linkage to the pods removed. Its a pain is the proverbial to get at it all but that seems a logical next step and I'll have a go next week.
Thanks for all the great advice

[seniorchristo]

There is a speed adjustment screw inside the control box. You might try to increase speed by turning clockwise

[stugilmour]

There is a speed adjustment screw inside the control box. You might try to increase speed by turning clockwise

This

[Barney]

These are the wiring instructions supplied by Spyder, I hope this helps.