Modern Gauges - Zetec

[gerrym]

Purist look away...

In contemplating building up the dashboard for my Zetec powered Plus 2, I'm now at the stage of looking at the gauges.

I have previously mapped out the refurbishment route, this post is looking at what would be required for a set of modern gauges.

Wish List is
1/ For an S130, there are two 100mm gauges (Tacho and Speedometer) plus 6 minor gauges of 52mm, I would want to stick with these sizes and numbers of gauges.

2/ Minor gauges ideally would include
voltmeter (same range as original)
oil pressure (range up to 100psi compared to 60 of original)
oil temperature (range up to 150 C no original oil temp)
water temperature (range up to 120 C as Zetec runs hotter than LTC)
fuel pressure (range up to 7 bar no original fitment)
fuel level (is the original sender VDO standard?)

3/ Tachometer needs to be compatible with voltage triggered signal from electronic ignition, compatible with 4 cyclinder
4/ Speedometer ideally electronic (compatible with trigger signal from gearbox -MT75), readily calibrated to suit gearing and tyres
5/ Speedo and Tachometer to be modern accurate reliable stepper motor design
6/ All gauges to be a set , i.e.same brand - design . I always thought the Kienzel clock looked a bit of a bitsa
7/ Prefer chrome bezel (1/2V or flat???) and white on black
8/ Instrument lighting for night time driving should be suitable for brightness control via variable resistor?
9/ The warning bezels ideally should be located or retrofitted into the new tacho and speedo (indicator, high beam, ignition/alternator excitation, oil pressure warning)

Big wish list, has anyone been done this route before and specced out a new set of instruments, ideally for the Zetec. Does anybody have a positive or otherwisen experience of modern CAI gauges (new name for Smiths) and their quality. Also if customising and or ordering a bespoke gauge set, positive experience with greengauges.com

All suggestions welcome

Gerry

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

After putting a Zetec in my S4 I had to replace the rev' couunter with one that ran with the engine management system.
I chose one that came from the supplier of the rest of my Zetec bits; just to be certain that it would run OK.
It's 80mm & I had to turn an alloy adaptor ring to fit the dash.
Remember that the original 100mm instruments also have warning lights in them, the modern alternatives don't so separate lights will have to be fitted into the dash.
I recommend that you get hold of a copy of "DemonTweeks" catalogue, they have a whole range of instruments including ones that retain the period look.

Cheers
John

[Jason1]

Demon tweeks do lots of different gauges;

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... lgrp=MS005

Some still maintain the retro look

[jono]

See this firm:

http://www.caigauge.com/

I think they can also mod your existing gauges retaining the period look. I am going to get them to convert my Plus 2 tacho for wasted spark ignition (although my car will still be a real Lotus as the twink will be retained )

[john.p.clegg]

Jono

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but why wasted spark?

John

P.S. maybe you want to start another thread?

[kcrossle]

Spyder shopped my original tach out to someone who modified it for the zetec and refurbished it nicely. Had them do the speedo too since it was a mess.

Gauges came back looking like new.

I can dig up the name of the shop if you'd like.

Keith

[ema7elan]

I bought my zetec +2 as a new build in Aug07. The builder was an ex Saab mechanic and the dash is quite different from the original +2 incorporating different ( I think Jag) rocker switches and a number of Saab components (wiper and indicatr stalks). The dash is all leather but the gauges are original Lotus. They are wired so the gauges are always lit (as per moderns). Everyhting works fine but i did notice thate speedo calibration is out. Fine at 30 and 40 but and indicated 70 is actualy 78!

Not for purists but i think it looks fine.

EMA7ELAN

[msd1107]

Gerry,

Sort of a technical comment re guages.

Theory indicates that the max reading of a gauge should be slightly larger than the maximum reading that you can get. Some people rotate the gauges so that the warning value points all needles in the same direction - straight up, to the right, whatever. That way you can determine at a glance if a reading is at warning or out of limits.

Re oil guage. Modern theory says to run as low an oil pressure (and thinnest viscosity) as possible to minimize losses. You may feel this is not appropriate for a 50 year old design. However, 50 psi should be a sufficient maximum reading. Incidentally, Smiths gauges reading to 50 psi (whether 270 deg sweep single or 180 deg sweep dual guage are more difficult to find at 50 psi, and are not available as new. And they do not pop up that frequently on Ebay.

Unless you are running fuel injection, fuel pressure is only a few psi whereas 7 bar is 100 psi roughly. You might think of a fuel pressure warning light triggered by a suitable low fuel pressure switch.

Lotus used two different fuel level senders and corresponding fuel gauges. They have to be matched or the fuel gauge reads full or empty. As I remember, one sender had a resistance range of 0-90 ohms, the other 30-270 or something like that. VDO is a German standard, and is different.

There are a variety of people who will convert your tach for electronic ignition.

Even in Smiths gauges, the type styles varied. Lotus used two different typestyles for the speedo/tach. The earlier one looked better but is virtually never seen. There were a variety of looks for the voltmeter. The modern Smiths reproduction gauges have a different typestyle than the period gauges. So you may have trouble getting a matched style set in all the gauges you want. However, there are some gauge repair people who can rescreen a gauge for you - just costs.

And modern gauges just look different. What one user did was to take the guts from a modern gauge and mount in the case and use the period faceplate of a period Smiths. This would give you the correct period look while getting whatever modern functionality whithout which you cannot live. Difficult job.

Good luck!

David
1968 36/7988

[gerrym]

Thanks for all the input and help.

VDO do 100mm Tacho and Speedometer, plus all the 52mm gauges for the functions/ranges that I require.

Does anyone have any positive or otherwise experience dealing with ETB gauges http://www.etbinstruments.com/VDO_Range.htm that they would care to share.

I will contact them and ask if they could add in (LED) bezels for high beam, indicator. Ignition warning light requires a bit of thinking because this controls the alternator field current.

I checked the range of the Plus 2 Smith's fuel sender: 20 -200 Ohms approximately which would make it practically compatible with the VDO gauge but not very linear.

Regards

ETB Instruments Limited
Unit 15 Brookside
Sumpters Way
Temple Farm Industrial Estate
Southend-on-Sea
Essex
SS2 5RR
United Kingdom

Contact Numbers

Tel +44 (0)1702 601055
Fax +44 (0)1702 601056

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Thanks for all the input and help.

VDO do 100mm Tacho and Speedometer, plus all the 52mm gauges for the functions/ranges that I require.

Does anyone have any positive or otherwise experience dealing with ETB gauges http://www.etbinstruments.com/VDO_Range.htm that they would care to share.

I will contact them and ask if they could add in (LED) bezels for high beam, indicator. Ignition warning light requires a bit of thinking because this controls the alternator field current.

I checked the range of the Plus 2 Smith's fuel sender: 20 -200 Ohms approximately which would make it practically compatible with the VDO gauge but not very linear.

Regards

ETB Instruments Limited
Unit 15 Brookside
Sumpters Way
Temple Farm Industrial Estate
Southend-on-Sea
Essex
SS2 5RR
United Kingdom

Contact Numbers

Tel +44 (0)1702 601055
Fax +44 (0)1702 601056

You have great insight by mentioning the Ignition warning light.
My installation; Zetec + Alternator resulted in this staying on continuously.
I resolved it by disconnecting it permanently; having not found a solution.
I'd be amazed if the supplier would be prepared to fit extra warning lights into the instruments as you described. Ability /Price?
I'll be watching this space with great interest

Cheers
John

[john.p.clegg]

John

Does not the alternator require a small current to "get it going" which is fed via the IGN lamp (can't use led) and as the output of the alternator rises to the battery voltage extinguishes the lamp.........maybe a micro relay to take the place of the IGN lamp driving your led?

John

[john.p.clegg]

John

Does not the alternator require a small current to "get it going" which is fed via the IGN lamp (can't use led) and as the output of the alternator rises to the battery voltage extinguishes the lamp.........maybe a micro relay to take the place of the IGN lamp driving your led?

John

[gwiz22]

Gerry,
You are right about the ignition light. You cannot use an LED. When I changed all my dashboard lights for LEDs I found two problems.
1. The ignition light mentioned above stayed on.
2. The blue Main beam light was too bright when driving at night.

So I left the old filament bulbs in these two locations.

I hope this helps.

Regards
Graham

[gwiz22]

Gerry,
You are right about the ignition light. You cannot use an LED. When I changed all my dashboard lights for LEDs I found two problems.
1. The ignition light mentioned above stayed on.
2. The blue Main beam light was too bright when driving at night.

So I left the old filament bulbs in these two locations.

I hope this helps.

Regards
Graham

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Apparently not John,

it's been running OK without the ignition light not connected (has a lamp fitted as orig. not an LED) since the rebuild 8 years ago.
The connections on the ex-Toyota Denso alternator are a bit obscure.
I posted a Photo on a thread specifically on this subject a few years ago.
There were some recommendations made then.
I'll check them out again in the Spring when I intend to give the car another severe looking at to put a few wrongs right.
Do you have any experience with Denso alternators?
They are very compact units & lend themselves well to the confined space in our cars.
Valeo & Bosch can't hold a candle to them in that respect.
I think that "Brice" + a couple of others stick their "competition" labels on them for the "tuning market".

Thanks for the assistance
Cheers
John

PS You will have noticed that I did get back to you 'orrible lot without loosing my gears