Should I just install a five speed and be done with it?

[tdskip]

Good morning gentlemen, hope everybody is having a good start to the weekend.

As some of you may remember I’ve been working on a 1969S for that is close to being back on the road. Or, more accurately, I thought it was close to being back on the road. I got the rebuilt engine installed and when I went to move it to the house so I could finish buttoning everything up the gearbox turns out to be stuck in gear.

When I pulled everything out of the car I brought the gearbox to a local shop to be resealed because that was the time to do it and I’m not sure if they messed something up or if somehow I did when I was putting it back in the car.

Net net: the area box is going to have to come back out and the shop that did the work, while being decent guys, or taking a stand that since they didn’t put it in they shouldn’t have to pay to take it out. They are standing by the gearbox repairs if needed but I just have a suspicion that this whole thing is going to go sideways. I’m expecting the shop to say that they can’t find any obvious issue and therefore point to it being a pre-existing issue that they are resealing the gearbox didn’t cause, so I’m then going to have to bring the gearbox to another shop to be rebuilt and so forth and etc. etc. etc.

Honestly I’m kind of tired with dealing with this and I just want to drive the bloody thing, so I’m wondering if I should just dig deep and if I’m gonna have to pull the engine and gearbox buy a five speed conversion kit and just put something known to be good and fresh in since it may not be a huge price difference anyway given all the impending brain damage.

[gherlt]

How about just buying a good 4 speeder ?
Cheaper in all aspects. You then can enjoy the car.
The old one can be sold off (do indicate condition!), repaired by a specialist or just stored away for later inspection.
Maybe there is a Ford gearbox specialist which would take it as part exchange ?

[tdskip]

Good morning/afternoon, thank you for the response. I would be very happy to be educated otherwise but I’m finding that at present in Southern California there are very few shops left that do this work well. I’ve had three British shops that I used to use all close within the past 18 months, in the last one that’s close to me just listed their building for sale so you know what that means.

You have made very good suggestions, and if I were in the UK this would probably be a lot easier to do.

Thank you again for the thoughtful response.

[StressCraxx]

Hello Skip,

Have you checked with Frank Monise Motors in Montclair?
Three generations of Lotus service in SoCal. They are the real deal.

Monise Frank Motors
8975 Vernon Ave Ste F
Montclair, CA 91763
(626) 795-8741

They supported my boyhood neighbor's car from new in 1965 until she passed in 2000.
They do repair and restoration of road cars and prepare vintage race cars.
They don't bother with websites. Lots of long time clientele.

[steve lyle]

The cost difference between a stock tranny and a 5-speed conversion is likely several thousand $’s. And it isn’t necessarily quick or easy. See my thread on my conversion experience. I got there, but from decision to completion was about 9 months, and two engine/tran pulls and replacements.

[gherlt]

Good morning/afternoon, thank you for the response. I would be very happy to be educated otherwise but I’m finding that at present in Southern California there are very few shops left that do this work well. I’ve had three British shops that I used to use all close within the past 18 months, in the last one that’s close to me just listed their building for sale so you know what that means.

You have made very good suggestions, and if I were in the UK this would probably be a lot easier to do.

Thank you again for the thoughtful response.

You are correct, in the UK this is far easier than in the ROW, but then in the US there has to be someone somewhere. It would not come cheap shipping a gearbox around, maybe even to the east coast, but if that solves your problem, why not ? I deduct from your "go 5 speed" idea you are willing to spend money, so invest in a good specialist, it's rewarding to get a good gearbox back....

I would ask Dave Bean or Ray if they know someone, also, there should be a few on this forum who had theirs repaired by a (US) specialist ?

[h20hamelan]

I am not sure of the ratios in any of my boxes, lots of options. You can check them out on-line and see if the T5 box ratios suits your driving 1st-3.35, 2nd-1.93, 3rd-1.29, 4th 1.00, and 5th-.68. Of course the Fox bodied Mustangs are heavier, but then underpowered. So my guesstimate was/is fine for me, at this point I dont care to change the ratios. You could choose to order the ratio you desire first, then try to find a different rebuilder.
I have my Elan with the original close ratio, and the +2 with the stock Fox box. Total costs for bell, annular, pressure plate and used box less than $500.
I suspect keeping the box for the car is worth it, in case the next owner desires originality or is hoping to Vintage it...

[1owner69Elan]

Good morning gentlemen, hope everybody is having a good start to the weekend.

As some of you may remember I’ve been working on a 1969S for that is close to being back on the road. Or, more accurately, I thought it was close to being back on the road. I got the rebuilt engine installed and when I went to move it to the house so I could finish buttoning everything up the gearbox turns out to be stuck in gear.

When I pulled everything out of the car I brought the gearbox to a local shop to be resealed because that was the time to do it and I’m not sure if they messed something up or if somehow I did when I was putting it back in the car.

Net net: the area box is going to have to come back out and the shop that did the work, while being decent guys, or taking a stand that since they didn’t put it in they shouldn’t have to pay to take it out. They are standing by the gearbox repairs if needed but I just have a suspicion that this whole thing is going to go sideways. I’m expecting the shop to say that they can’t find any obvious issue and therefore point to it being a pre-existing issue that they are resealing the gearbox didn’t cause, so I’m then going to have to bring the gearbox to another shop to be rebuilt and so forth and etc. etc. etc.

Honestly I’m kind of tired with dealing with this and I just want to drive the bloody thing, so I’m wondering if I should just dig deep and if I’m gonna have to pull the engine and gearbox buy a five speed conversion kit and just put something known to be good and fresh in since it may not be a huge price difference anyway given all the impending brain damage.

If you "just want to drive the bloody thing" it will probably be faster and cheaper to get your 4-speed sorted out. Like Steve Lyle, I have recently installed the Voigt 5-speed. My experience is embedded in the same thread that Steve started. Here is what you should consider:

1. Obtaining the Voigt 5-speed from the UK, in my experience, is not a quick simple order and receive. I waited 15 months from order placement until I received the gearbox in California. It has not been atypical to wait on the order of a year to see your order fulfilled. Perhaps, Voigts has speeded up deliveries now but I wouldn't be too sure about that. I was often told that my order was only a few weeks away but it would never materialize. They encountered some tooling problems or other glitches. I don't think they were being disingenuous. Just maybe optimistic.

2. The cost for the Voigts gearbox without any gear set changes is 2500 pounds. I added to this a new BGH close ratio gearset (another 1000 pounds). Then there is shipping but, if you choose wisely, this only cost me 156 pounds.
So, in dollars the whole thing cost me ~$4500. The exchange rate has tipped in favor of the pound since I paid for my gearbox last year. Same gearbox would now cost $5K.

3. I had my 4-speed gearbox completely refurbished by the same fellow that did my engine (Dave Vegher) in California a few years back for $1100, new parts (seals, synchros, forks,...) and labor. So, $1100 vs $5000. And a fairly quick turnaround (less than a day in labor).

4. The Voigt gearbox conversion is not really a "new" unit. The kit is based upon a refurbished T9 gearbox presumably completely checked out. I opted for a new gear set to get the ratios I wanted but also so I wouldn't be using "old" gears.


In the end, I am very happy with the 5-speed and wouldn't want to revert to the 4-speed. It would be very hard to give up the overdrive 5th gear so useful on the freeways here where people are cruising at 80+ mph. I also feel like my Voigt box with the brand-new BGH close ratio gearset performs and shifts better than my original 4-speed.
But, I am also keeping my original 4-speed in storage in case, at a later date, posterity might want to go back to a stock configuration.

[rgh0]

The most likely cause of it being stuck in gear is that the gear lever housing has been incorrectly refitted if it was removed it to replace the gasket. If the drop link to the reverse gear selector that pivots from this housing is not positioned correctly as the housing is fitted you can have this problem.

An easy and quick fix that only takes a few minutes but you need to pull the gearbox out to do it unfortunately

cheers
Rohan

[tdskip]

Why I was slow to respond

Was out hiking today so I apologize for the slow response but thank you for all of the responses and considerations. I really appreciate all of the thoughts and things to be aware of.

It seems likely that when they did reseal the gearbox they made that mistake Rohan.

[alan.barker]

With the gearbox still in the Car you can remove the Gear Lever. Then look at the machined Notches on Selector rods to see if they are inline. They can become out of line if the reverse gear is selected by lifting up too high when putting into Reverse. You can push the Notches back into line using a Screwdriver.
Alan

[tdskip]

Will check that Alan, thanks for the idea.

[alan.barker]

I hope that's what has happened so easy fix. sometimes it just need adjustement of shim under ball of gear lever to stop jumping over the top and selecting/blocking in two gears at the same time.
Alan

[tdskip]

I am going to be printing this out and bring it to the shop where the car currently is that did the gearbox re-seal. Hoping for a easy fix but not getting my hopes up too high.

Thank you again for all of the support and encouragement.

[RichardHawkins]

I don’t really understand the term “re seal”. Have they told you just what they did, this might help with diagnosis.

Richard Hawkins