Lotus Elan

Elan +2 5 speed problem

PostPost by: jkatthehelm » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:44 pm

Dear all, need some help.
I just took on a partially restored plus2 5 speed. Engine and gearbox restored, but not run recently while cosmetics sorted.
Just checking it all, I tried to put in a gear to check the engine turns over.
I can only 'find' 1-4; 5 and reverse seem impossible; furthermore, when 'engaged' the car still rolls without the engine turning!
I am sure this car was never driven since the rebuild, so perhaps never previously tested. Is there anything obvious (apart from missing propshaft or other unthinkable such!) that could be causing this?
Is it possible that I'm finding the synchos only?
Thanks
James
66 Elan fhc, 69 Elan Plus 2, 98 Elise 2.0l Duratec
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:17 pm

Do you feel the spring detent...

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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:26 pm

And your sure it is a 5 speed?
Reverse is tough if your not accustomed to it
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PostPost by: mbell » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:49 pm

If the gear stick is going into the position but not selecting the gear then its probably a problem with the 5th/rev selector mechanism as it is seperate to 1-4 and a few point it could be wrong. You can look at it in the parts diagrams:
http://rdent.com/manuals/plus2/transmission/fd.htm

If you can or can't feel the detents (stick locking in position) might give you some clue where the fault is.

You are basically looking at removing the gearbox (and engine) to see what is going on.

Stuff you can do with box in the car
- Confirm the gearstick lower ball is in good condition. To do this put it in fourth and then unscrew the base, once removed check the underside of any signs of the plastic ball breaking down.
- Select the gears via the link selector with gear stick removed
- See if the 5th/rev selector shaft is moving via the 5th/rev detent (remove dome nut on underside of seeing if shaft moves)

FYI taking the box out of 5th is normally very stiff due to strong detent spring under the dome nut, it maybe the PO tried to address this and its now too easy and not staying in gear.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:26 pm

James
Just to help you understand the above parts diagram , selecting rev/5th is as follows...
1 , 8 , 3 , 9 , 10 , 12 , 14 , 23 , 22 , then 27 for 5th , or , 25 , 24 , for reverse...

John ;-)
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PostPost by: jkatthehelm » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:49 pm

Hi all, thanks for the speedy help! What worries me most is no drive in any gear; diagnosis made worse by fact that engine is not commissioned yet. I shall check more in the morning, but have been underneath and confirmed 5 speed, ally bell and can see the 5th detent nut. Please keep the suggestions coming!
J
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PostPost by: sprintsoft » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:17 am

Hi James,

How about eliminate the easy stuff first...

Are the wheels connected to the diff?
Is the diff turning the propshaft?

Iain
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PostPost by: vxah » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:29 am

Don’t forget it’s good practice to not fit the drive shaft couplings when the car is sitting very high due to being partially built! Don’t want them wrenched at a large angle for months on end!
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PostPost by: jkatthehelm » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:16 am

Hi Iain
Thanks for the reply, yes, easy stuff eliminated (I think I mentioned); I think it’s to do with the 5th/reverse linkage, will look later.
JK
66 Elan fhc, 69 Elan Plus 2, 98 Elise 2.0l Duratec
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PostPost by: jkatthehelm » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:18 am

Dear MBell
Why does it need to be in 4th before removing the selector? I ask because I cannot select 4th at present!
Thanks!
James
66 Elan fhc, 69 Elan Plus 2, 98 Elise 2.0l Duratec
_____________________________________
Which way up should this be???
jkatthehelm
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PostPost by: sprintsoft » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:55 am

Hi James,

Ok so everything is connected, it’s possible a broken diff output shaft could give you no drive, I understood you were Initially trying to roll the car in gear to rotate the engine?

Iain
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74 S130/5 - 1931L
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PostPost by: tvr78 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:37 pm

Is the hole where the gearstick comes though in the console and fibreglass big enough to engage all gears?
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PostPost by: jkatthehelm » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:01 pm

Dear all
Thanks for replies. Will check the hole, pretty sure diff ok but will check this too.
Thanks again!
James
66 Elan fhc, 69 Elan Plus 2, 98 Elise 2.0l Duratec
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Which way up should this be???
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:13 pm

jkatthehelm wrote:Why does it need to be in 4th before removing the selector? I ask because I cannot select 4th at present!


Because the "link selector" can become disconnected when in neutral, which is a real pain to get back in place. So better to put it in gear, any gear will do but 4th is most common for easiest access.

I think it would be helpful if you could be a bit more specific about the issue you face.

Do any of the gears engage?

For the gears that don't engage, does the gear stick move to the correct location for that gear?

What do you feel through the gear stick for those gears? Nothing? Something approaching normal gear change?

Does the gear stick stay in place or do you have to hold it in place?
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:22 pm

BTW what is the status of the clutch?

They often become stuck when left unused which could prevent rotation of the input shaft, with car on the ground the output shaft also can not rotate. This could make selecting gears difficult if they don't happen to be correctly aligned already.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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