Notchy Shifting on 67 elan

[Greg Foster]

I just pulled engine and gearbox from my elan. The box wasn't shifting well anymore. It is apart on my bench and inspection is underway. Just before Gettysburg LOG, a squealing sound was coming from my pilot bearing and decided to pull the trans then to replace the bearing. With too much to do and not enough time I decided to let a local transmission mechanic go over the unit and replace bearings and anything else which needed to be done. Got it back in the car and noticed forward motion/ play in 1st gear...you could push the gear lever forward with some springyness. Maybe 1/4" beyond what I would think is normal. My first thought was the mechanic had forgotten to put the 1st/ reverse shift rail lock out pin back in. I have lived with it this long until the box started giving me problems.....like difficulty engaging reverse and notchy shifting 1st to 2nd. So out it came.
When I pulled it apart, the detent plungers were in place and the pin was centered between them as it shoud have been....Hmmmm... Looking at the brass blocker rings there is some wear especially on 2nd gear . I will post photos to show. Nothing of obvious concern, but again I have only rebuilt one other 4 speed trans before, replacing only bearings and seals.
The trans had the recommended REDLINE gear oil and had been smooth shifting .
Give me some insight if you can. I know it may be shooting in the dark.
Greg

[rgh0]

If affecting ability to select reverse and first I would suspect clutch drag or pilot bearing drag.

cheers
Rohan

[Greg Foster]

there is some wear, but I don't have the knowledge to understand if this could cause problems.
one more picture to come. The problem arises when shifting from first into second. Also when trying for reverse, if I engage 1st prior to reverse I am able to stop the spin of the gears and then mesh reverse with no problem.
It tends to scrape some if I shift directly into reverse. I have had the trans oil in for about 6 or so years but this has just started. Probably no more than 9,000 miles during that time .
Greg

[Chancer]

Clutch drag explains why you can select reverse easily after engaging 1st, you dont even need to engage it, just put some pressure on the lever to engage the 1st gear syncro cone which will bring the rotating input shaft to a halt.

This will not have any bearing IMO on the notchy 1st to 2nd shift, that is another problem.

[Craven]

Very long shot but has the snap ring holding 1st/2nd hub in place been refitted.

[promotor]

Very long shot but has the snap ring holding 1st/2nd hub in place been refitted.

That sounds the most likely scenario to me also.

[Greg Foster]

Blockers , retaining snap rings and spring were all in proper placement as far as I can see.

[promotor]

Blockers , retaining snap rings and spring were all in proper placement as far as I can see.

Have you removed first gear so that you can see the snap ring that holds the 1st/2nd synchro hub in place is there?

[joe7]

PM sent

[2cams70]

The picture shows that at least one blocker bar is missing - or perhaps you just assembled them roughly just for the purpose of the photo? The end tang of the spring should not be visible.The dog teeth on the synchro ring are rarely a problem. What is critical however is the condition of the ridges inside the cone of the ring. These ridges cut through the oil film to enable sufficient friction to be achieved in order to slow or speed up the gear for speed synchronisation prior to engagement. If they are worn down they cannot do so.

It's also important that the blocker springs are installed in each hub such that they are rotated in opposite directions and so the spring force on the blockers is evenly distributed across all three - the workshop manual gives details. It is also possible to mix the springs up between the hubs as they are different 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th. Make sure the springs are the correct ones for the particular hub.