Lotus Elan

4-Speed Gearbox help please

PostPost by: TroonSprint » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:37 pm

During the rebuild of my Sprint I naturally had a look inside the original 44 year old gearbox. I decided to replace the following components:
Oil Seals
Lay Shaft
Lay shaft Needle Roller Bearings
Lay Shaft Thrust Washers
Main Shaft Spigot
Tail Shaft Bush
Both 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th Selector Forks, but not the Reverse Selector.
I bought all the parts from Paul Matty's.

Having completed the car and driven it, I find that the gearbox works well in all forward gears, although the change is a bit "notchy" in feel. There is no difficulty selecting or deselecting any forward gear. It goes into reverse easily too, but doesn't want to come out of reverse. It needs a hefty thump on the gear lever to get it back into neutral. The gearbox is quiet in operation. The clutch, clutch pipe, and both clutch cylinders are all new and the hydraulics are working properly. I am using Redline MTL oil in the box.

I have tried screwing the reverse light switch out as far as it can go while still working. I have also put an extra gasket under the plastic cup that holds the gear lever down. Neither of these ploys made any difference.

Can anyone shed any light on where the problem might lie? I'm not keen to start dismantling again unless I have some clear idea of what to look for.

Thanks in anticipation of your knowledge.

Mike
User avatar
TroonSprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 507
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Location: Troon, SW Scotland

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:15 pm

Interesting to hear what some of the answers may be. For 38 years, my Sprint has always required a good whack to get out of reverse and has always been notchy on shifting. No rebuilds in the past, even before I owned it. I've tried different Redline fluids but have always like regular 89/90.

I know its different because I've driven earlier cars and have owned two LoCorts and their boxes have felt
different, ie, 'easier'.
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
45/7286 S3 SE DHC
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3022
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: el-saturn » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:33 pm

although or even though i am quite knowledgable, an old master (bruno schaffner/racing) assisted me 2000k's ago when "we" restored the box, actually needed new seals. -------------------------- it shifted nice then and now: reminds me of a Rolls Royce tbh!! PS maybe the machining tolerances are (i.d. or o.d.) too close/tight on the new bits!? cheers sandy - still driving: it's mid DECEMBER!!
el-saturn
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Location: switzerland

PostPost by: PeterK » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:51 pm

Couple of quick thoughts in increasing order of grief....
1 - clutch adjustment. Is it as difficult to get out of gear with engine turned off ?
2 - indent spring and / or a slight burr on the shaft where the indent ball fits

Peter
User avatar
PeterK
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 282
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Location: Fleet, north Hampshire, UK

PostPost by: TroonSprint » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:55 pm

I'm always amazed how quickly replies come in to a post. Thanks guys for your input so far. To answer Peter, the clutch adjustment is correct (checked again recently) and the reverse gear is as stubborn to disengage with the engine off as it is when running.

Keep your ideas coming please! :mrgreen:

Mike
User avatar
TroonSprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 507
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Location: Troon, SW Scotland

PostPost by: Grizzly » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:04 pm

This is an Interesting topic, both my Elans are four speed and they both like to keep hold of Reverse even though they have never been open.

I had some clutch issues with my +2 (bad Nylon hose) which meant i had to pump the clutch before it would engage (Forward and reverse) but strangely it didn't make much difference to taking it out of gear (Forward gears where still ok and Reverse was still reluctant)

I did try a few different oils in my +2 but all that did was make the forward gears Smoother (it has Redline MT-90 in at the moment), the guy who rebuilds are Boxes at work told me to be careful the oil was brass friendly but i'm not sure if he was trying to wind me up :)

So i assumed that was how they all where.
Chris
User avatar
Grizzly
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Location: Cheshire/UK

PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:59 pm

My sprint also has needs encouragement to get it out of reverse, the box has never been rebuilt, and it's always been so.

Regards
Richard
Richard
'72 Sprint
richardcox_lotus
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Location: Kent

PostPost by: Robbie693 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:29 am

Both the Plus 2's I have owned and the MkII Cortina I had with the same or similar gearbox have required a light slap with the palm to get out of reverse. Not really a heavy whack though. I just developed the knack to it and assumed it to be a peculiarity of the box. I imagined it like knocking the lever off the 'shelf' that you have to pull the lever up on to to get reverse...

It was an odd feeling when I first drove a Plus 2 and my hand seemed to remember the 'knack' from driving the Cortina, even though it was a good 15 years or so between the two!
User avatar
Robbie693
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Location: UK

PostPost by: pereirac » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:44 am

So pleased to learn it's not just an issue with my Sprint gearbox .... :D
Carl

72 Elan Sprint
87 Excel SE
97 Alpina B10

http://www.lotuselan.co.uk
User avatar
pereirac
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 961
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPost by: frogeyesimon » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:43 am

The 4-speed in my +2 doesn't exhibit the behaviour described - should I be worried.... :?
==================
1968 +2S 130 50/1189
1959 Frogeye Sprite
frogeyesimon
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 69
Joined: 12 Jun 2014
Location: Hampshire

PostPost by: TroonSprint » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:48 am

To Greg Z, Grizzly, Richard, Robbie and Carl, you guys have given me a great Christmas present. :D I no longer feel that I must take my gearbox out again and strip it down. The fact that five of you suffer the same problem (to different degrees) with your gearboxes leads to me to realise that, while it may not be the way the gearbox is meant to work, the slap needed to get out of reverse is pretty common.

Thank you all.
Mike
User avatar
TroonSprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 507
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Location: Troon, SW Scotland

PostPost by: TroonSprint » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:51 am

FrogeyeSimon, your gearbox comes out of reverse smoothly? Hmm, worrying amount of wear I should say.... :lol:

M
User avatar
TroonSprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 507
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Location: Troon, SW Scotland

PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:40 am

Robbie693 wrote:Both the Plus 2's I have owned and the MkII Cortina I had with the same or similar gearbox have required a light slap with the palm to get out of reverse. Not really a heavy whack though. I just developed the knack to it and assumed it to be a peculiarity of the box. I imagined it like knocking the lever off the 'shelf' that you have to pull the lever up on to to get reverse...

It was an odd feeling when I first drove a Plus 2 and my hand seemed to remember the 'knack' from driving the Cortina, even though it was a good 15 years or so between the two!


Blimey its been 20 years since I drove with one of those gearboxes but I can still recall the feeling you describe and the knack of overcoming it, I reckon I too would immediately revert to a long forgotten knack (can no longer find the right word in my mother tongue) if I got behind the wheel again.

So make that 6 people!
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: jimj » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:20 am

I put the Voight 5 speed in our S3 a few years ago, just for the more relaxed higher gearing. Initially I thought the clutch wasn`t connected, it was so light (in a good way), and the "modern" smooth gearchange made me actually miss the clickety original, more classic-car experience. Now we also have a Sprint in factory spec.and, again initially, I thought the (dare I say) more agricultural, gearchange a bit of a pain but, now, I really like the difference. Driving any old car smoothly is all part of the pleasure, otherwise I`d recommend you buy an MX5.
Jim
jimj
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 878
Joined: 25 Feb 2008

PostPost by: steve.thomas » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Just to echo the other posters, both elans I've owned have needed a gentle whack to get out of reverse and I always assumed this was a standard feature.
Steve
steve.thomas
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 119
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Location: Gironde, France
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests