Lotus Elan

Eclat 5 speed box

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:06 pm

I've come across what I think is an Eclat 5 speed gearbox, mated to a 4 speed bellhousing with a 1/4" plate
adapter, homemade. Looks to be a possible candidate for an Elan (at least someone else thought so, too) so
I'm curious about the ratios.

I counted the teeth on each gear and from front to back, they are: 20 23 28 31 34.

My casual researching shows this might be a Getrag box with a 2:95 first gear and .81 fifth. Is this true for this box?

Would the Lotus 5 speed tailshaft bolt to this box?

edit: whoops, forgot to mention the only numbers I found on it are on the tailshaft and they are: A075F0227
with a 'DD1' below it
Attachments
DSC06440.JPG and
DSC06439.JPG and
DSC06436.JPG and
DSC06435.JPG and
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2973
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:04 pm

gjz30075 wrote:My casual researching shows this might be a Getrag box with a 2:95 first gear and .81 fifth. Is this true for this box?


I am pretty sure you have a Lotus gearbox for the early Elite/Eclat range. The main casing and the internals look very much like what is shown in the Service Parts List for the Elan+2S 130/5. (See RD's web site) Obviously the tail housing is different but the bolt pattern for attachment to the main case looks to be the same as for the Lotus-made box. I doubt very much that Getrag would have cast a Lotus part number into the tail housing. I believe the Getrag used in later Elite/Eclats was also used in quite a few non-Lotus cars. The fifth gear set is inside the tail housing.
Russ Newton
Elan +2S (1971)
Elite S2 (1962)
User avatar
CBUEB1771
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Boston, Massachusetts USA

PostPost by: mbell » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:33 pm

As said looks like a lotus box to me, it very similar to mine. Should be able to fit it to elan with a new tail housing. Not sure about bell housing, possible that plate is to allow fitment to the 907 lotus engine instead of the ford block.

As I understand it early eclats had the lotus box. Later ones had the getrag.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:43 pm

"Lotus" is cast in the top cover, so that makes sense. If I'm counting five gears in the main case, then
it sounds like this is definitely a Lotus box for an early Eclat. So, the ratios would be the same then, as a
Lotus 5 speed box, unchanged for the Eclat??

The gearstick (which I don't have) looks like it connects to a rod, which then takes a dogleg to the
right (as viewed from the rear) and there's a ball and socket arrangement to another rod going to the
forks. Is the Lotus tailshaft the same arrangement, ie, could I just bolt on a Lotus tailshaft?
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2973
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:36 am

gjz30075 wrote:could I just bolt on a Lotus tailshaft?


I looked into this a number of years ago for my +2. A neighbor had an Eclat and a growing collection of Lotus gearboxes for it. A growing collection because they did't survive well in the Eclat. I copied the gearbox pages of the Eclat Service Parts List and compared them to the corresponding pages from the +2 Service Parts List. The comparison was easy because aside from nuts and bolts all of the 5 speed gearbox parts for the +2 have a "050" prefix and the differing parts in the Eclat version have an "075" prefix. There are quite a few parts to change in addition to the tail housing itself, not an impossible number of parts though. Keep in mind that the gear shift lever in the Elite/Eclat is a lot further back than in the Elan or +2 so selector shafts and other bits are different. I think I still have the Eclat parts list around somewhere. Regarding your count of gear teeth. Keep in mind that what you can see with the top cover off is just a starting point. From left to right in your photo we see the input shaft gear that delivers power down to the lay gear, then third, second, reverse and first. Again, fifth is out in the tail housing. Your first gear synchro looks like it has taken a bit of a beating.
Russ Newton
Elan +2S (1971)
Elite S2 (1962)
User avatar
CBUEB1771
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Boston, Massachusetts USA

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:06 am

Gjz
Before getting your hopes up,the gearbox itself is ready to drop in an Elan/Plus2,the problem is with the tailhousing...it won't fit in...I had a tailhousing modified to the Ford dimensions ( even had the drive broached and shortened and gearlever moved forward ) but the bulk of it will not fit in the box section...if you can find a genuine Lotus 5-speed tailhousing ( hens teeth ) then the conversion is a do'er,I'm well pleased with mine,ratios are as near as damn it the same as the 4-speeder with an overdrive.

Admittedly the change is not Lee-Enfield but not far off now.

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5691
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:41 am

John, I know this 5 speed stuff gets stirred up every few years and I just finished reading the "...gearbox swop.." thread by Alex from several years back and remember your comment on the tailshaft fit. Maybe now with
3D printing, it's possible ($$$) to get a tailshaft :idea: And Alex has already solved the wimpy shifter thing.

Russ, thanks for setting me straight on the gears. I can't see the lay gears enough to get ratios (at the time) but the Lotus box ratios are published so I now know them. You're right, first gear is toast. It also wobbles around about 1/4" and there's hunks of metal lying at the bottom of the box. Hope this is fixable :oops: If it is, I'm going to move forward with this thing and look for a bellhousing, tailshaft, propshaft and all the other bits needed.

Thanks guys!
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2973
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: theelanman » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:34 am

I know its probably been discussed before.....
but has anyone got to the bottom of O/D

thought about dropping these guys a line

https://www.gearvendors.com/index.html
User avatar
theelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Peak District

PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:26 pm

Greg,
The attached Lotus service bulletin for installing a 5 speed in ann Elan or +2 used to be up here on the Lotuselan.net site. This may be useful.
Attachments
LOTUS PARTS BULLETIN.pdf
(75.23 KiB) Downloaded 313 times
Russ Newton
Elan +2S (1971)
Elite S2 (1962)
User avatar
CBUEB1771
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Boston, Massachusetts USA

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:46 pm

Thanks Russ, I saw it somewhere in the past but couldn't find it again.

A unit from Gearvendors Overdrive would be great. I doubt if they have one 'off the shelf' but I might
inquire.
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
36/5727 pre airflow coupe
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2973
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: theelanman » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:53 pm

gjz30075 wrote:Thanks Russ, I saw it somewhere in the past but couldn't find it again.

A unit from Gearvendors Overdrive would be great. I doubt if they have one 'off the shelf' but I might
inquire.



now a man on the scene....who is able to chat to them is always a bonus......
Im just a bit too far away for all that so I was going to email..........
but while youre there
:mrgreen:
User avatar
theelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Location: Peak District

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest