Lotus Elan

Need step by step procedure for gearbox removal

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:12 am

Hello,

I browsed in the forum and realized there is the "engine then gearbox" way and the "all-together" way.

I will choose so far the "all together engine + gearbox" removal solution. I don't know yet if I will take my cherished Elan to some unknown garage which do not know jackshit about Elan and will charge me like if I was an american (no offense intended) OR if I will do it myself for the very first time with a friend.

Anyway and either way, I will feel more secure if I have a procedure to follow that I understood previously. If I am doing it myself or if I have to translate it to give advices to the garage, Some vocabulary words are missing for me to understand clearly what I have to do. For example I googled the word "tranny" which I read in many of your posts and found some disguting answers....
Sometimes I feel you re taking shortcuts and forget about removing or unscrewing certain parts.

So far here is a mix of what I read and what I don't understand.

It is a Lotus Elan S4 on a Spyder chassis

1. Drain radiator fluid. Disconnect hoses at thermostat and timing case and heater hoses at thermostat and timing case. Drain Gearbox Oil.

(Don't you need to remove the radiator?)


2. Detach heater control wire.
3. Remove air box and carbs.
4. Remove alternator (is that mandatory?)
5. Remove starter. (is that mandatory?)
6. Remove bolts attaching tranny mount to the cross bar. Put in long bolts through the holes to keep tranny from moving forward. (what is tranny except that weird youporn category of shemale)
7. Detach wires to reverse switch; remove reverse switch.
8. Remove shift lever. ( only the stick? do you need to remove the fiber glass tunnel to do that?)

9. Remove engine mounts. ( from which point? from the engine side or from the chassis side where are the rubber mounts blocks?)

10. Remove exhaust header or manifold bolts. Remove the Mikalor collar which hold the Y Pipe below the car.
11. Slide engine (and tranny together) as far right as possible; you should now be able to separate the headers from the head.

12. Slide engine back to center.
13. Connect engine hoist to cylinder head using chains or rope supporting head at the thermostat and intake manifolds.
14. Slide engine forward and lift with hoist and lift it nearly vertical to clear the chassis

(there is nothing to unscrew below the car attaching the main drive shaft to the gear box?)
(What about the speedo cable???)

Thank you to help me to create a full tutorial. :mrgreen:
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: Chancer » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:23 am

Tranny is the mot familier for "transmission" in the above it is used to describe the gearbox.

I understood your reference to being taken for an American but I'm not sure that our cousins across the Atlantic do so and perhaps its best not to enlighten them.

If ever you have to travel to Northern France on business I would be happy to show you how to strip and reassemble your gearbox, to decide what parts need replacing, you could then hopefully re-assemble it at your leisure.

The last one I did was here 10 years ago for a friend with a Marcos, and that was 10 years after doing them on a reguar basis so it will be good to" keep my hand in", by the way this means garder la main ? la p?te just in case Google gives you some even more disgusting results than tranny :lol:
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: PeterK » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:42 am

My additions, although I have a Zetec engined Plus 2
Peter

Some translations for UK / US
Tranny = transmission = gearbox
Exhaust manifold = headers

1. Remove bonnet
2. Drain radiator fluid. Disconnect hoses at thermostat and timing case and heater hoses at thermostat and timing case. Disconnect radiator fan, remove radiator & fan
3. Disconnect prop-shaft from rear differential, pull prop-shaft from rear of gearbox tail housing and move out off the way. You can pull the engine and gearbox out without disconnecting the prop-shaft, but it makes life very awkward to refit them with propshaft still connected to the differential
4. Drain Gearbox Oil. (Note: You do not need to drain gearbox, although if not, then place bag or rubber glove over end of gearbox tail housing to stop oil leaking out when engine and gearbox are lifted from the car)
5. Disconnect speedo cable from gearbox (if awkward, you can do this when starting to lift out the engine later)
6. Disconnect exhaust pipe mounting to gearbox, if fitted
7. Remove bolts attaching gearbox mount to the cross-member. (Put in long bolts through the holes to keep tranny from moving forward - I have never used long bolts, just release gearbox cross member from chassis - why would the transmission move ?)
8. Remove starter. (is that mandatory?) Only necessary if engine only is being removed, but still recommended when both removed, as more room and less chance of damage.
9. Detach heater control wire.
10. Disconnect fuel line, choke and throttle cables from carbs. Remove air box and carbs.
11. Remove alternator (is that mandatory?) Recommended - easy to do, gives more room and reduces risk of damage
12. Detach wires to reverse switch; (don't need to remove reverse switch)(if awkward, you can disconnect wires when starting to lift out the engine later)
13. Remove shift lever. ( only the stick? YES do you need to remove the fiber glass tunnel to do that? NO, just the rubber gaiter)
14. Connect engine hoist to cylinder head using chains or rope supporting head at the thermostat and intake manifolds. (I run one rope under the front of the engine, and another around gearbox bell-housing)
15. Remove engine mounts. At least remove two bolts running front to rear Removing complete rubber mount gives more room to manoeuvre engine
Remove earth straps (often fitted across rubber engine mount, but sometimes additional ones are used)
16. Remove exhaust header or manifold bolts. Remove the Mikalor collar which hold the Y Pipe below the car.
17. Slide engine (and tranny together) as far right as possible; you should now be able to separate the exhaust manifold from the head.
18. Slide engine back to center.
19. Slide engine forward and lift with hoist and lift it nearly vertical to clear the chassis
Keep checking for anything still attached while lifting !
Raising the front of the car gives more room for gearbox to swing down, but requires more height above to lift engine out.
User avatar
PeterK
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 319
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Location: Fleet, north Hampshire, UK

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:07 pm

3. Disconnect prop-shaft from rear differential, pull prop-shaft from rear of gearbox tail housing and move out off the way. You can pull the engine and gearbox out without disconnecting the prop-shaft, but it makes life very awkward to refit them with propshaft still connected to the differential

We are making Progress here thanks to Peter! :mrgreen:

Mmmh, I am not 100% sure I understand that part. The propshaft is sandwich stuck with in front of him the gear box and behind him the differential. How do you disconnect it from rear diff ? something to unscrew?
And regarding the part of the propshaft connected to the gearbox, something to unscrew? Then my question after the "how to unscrew part" how do you pull out the propshaft while the diff and the gear box are still in place?

You said pull the propshaft backward (away from the gearbox) but the rear diff wich is behind will prevent the propshaft to move backward???
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: RogerFrench » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:10 pm

Cedric, there is a flange on the propshaft which is bolted to a matching flange on the pinion shaft at the front of the diff casing. There are 4 bolts. If you take them out, you can slide the propshaft aside and pull it backwards. The front of the propshaft is splined and slides into the back of the gearbox, nothing to unscrew.
You then leave the propshaft in the car. Remove it later if you want to.
1967 Elan S3
1972 Europa Twin Cam
2005 Elise
User avatar
RogerFrench
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 617
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Location: Richmond, TX

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:37 pm

Ok got it! thxs
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: Chancer » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:34 pm

Its mostly intuitive and 99% of people manage to do it the first time without a manual or instruction, they may struggle with a few bits there may be things still attached that they are unaware of or they may remove things that they neednt have.

With the advice recieved above you can avoid all these anoying pitfalls none of which would prevent a competent person from removing the gearbox but it will avoid some swearing!
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: RogerFrench » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:23 am

One other thing. You'll have an engine crane and heavy stuff swinging, so be sure to cover your bodywork around the engine bay to prevent damage to your paint.
Just in case you forgot.
1967 Elan S3
1972 Europa Twin Cam
2005 Elise
User avatar
RogerFrench
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 617
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Location: Richmond, TX

PostPost by: billwill » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:57 am

When you lift engine and gearbox together, when it becomes free of the car, the combined engine and gear box are nearly vertical with the engine at top and the gear box pointing down.

I recommend draining the gearbox before lift, because all the oil will rush to the open output shaft end and you would need a very good rubber bag to hold it in.

With the engine on the hoist near vertical you may find that your equipment can't get it high enough for the back end of the gearbox to clear the bodywork. If so you need to carefully rotate the engine so that the gearbox faces forward and then hold up the back end of the gearbox while either moving the engine hoist forwards or the car backwards so that the engine can be carefully lowered to the floor.

Be very careful when the engine is swinging free, it could swing backwards and smash your windscreen. Always have someone guiding the position of the engine and gearbox.

In my case the hoist is fixed to the ceiling, so I roll the car backwards out of the way. So it takes at least two persons.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4717
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:09 pm

RogerFrench wrote:Cedric, there is a flange on the propshaft which is bolted to a matching flange on the pinion shaft at the front of the diff casing. There are 4 bolts. If you take them out, you can slide the propshaft aside and pull it backwards. The front of the propshaft is splined and slides into the back of the gearbox, nothing to unscrew.
You then leave the propshaft in the car. Remove it later if you want to.


Damned!!! Two nuts and screw removed fine, the remaining ones will not move. The nuts have started to round off aaaaaaarghhhhh :evil:
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: rgh0 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:44 pm

yes it can happen with the limited spanner access :evil:

If you cant shift them and they have become to rounded then get in there with a hacksaw or dremel or nut splitter - what ever is easiest and cut off or split the offending nuts.

When you reassemble use lots of antisieze :D
Using grade 8 bolts and nuts ( bolts with 6 lines on the head) is also a good idea as the harder steel does not round off as easy

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:54 am

Salut

I discovered the existance of the nut-splitter as a result of working on my +2 - stuck and then rounded nuts, too. Very useful on a Lotus, and safer than going at it with an angle-grinder when you're near the fuel tank. The angle-grinder does help dissipate frustration, though.

Working on my wife's mini and searching the forum I came across and bought some 'freeze releasing aerosol' - can't remember what it's called in English - works on the principle of spot-freezing and craking the rust between nut and bolt. Worked well, too and definitely something essential for Lotus owners. Wasn't easy to find in France - it's considered dangerous according to Norauto who had a tin on their shelves by accident. They told me it was for their workshop before reluctantly selling it.

So, nut-split the nuts off, freeze spray where the bolts are stuck and tap out with a hammer - easy :D

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 927
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:11 am

Wd40 all night long. I got them this morning! Yeaaaah
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: Pistacchio sprint 72 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:24 am

With all your good advices :mrgreen: :
- drive shaft removed
- exhaust box and long pipe removed
- manifold still in place :? but brass nuts removed
- y pipe removed
- gearbox drained
- clivey rad and double fans removed
- airbox and carbs removed
- silicone hoses removed
- heater hoses detached

Remains gearbox screws, temp sensor cables, alternator...

Had some bad surprises... :shock:

The bottom silicone hose has to be replaced due to uj joint from steering column rubbing it nearly to death.

I discovered this ... Seems like corrosion killed it also. What does this involve???? :(
Attachments
image.jpg and
image.jpg and
image.jpg and
Cooled down by CliveyBoy!
User avatar
Pistacchio sprint 72
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Location: French Riviera...

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:50 am

Looks like you need a new front cover.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: bill308 and 12 guests