Lotus Elan

Clutch bleeding

PostPost by: Frank Howard » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:23 pm

b-havers wrote:When trying to close the door, it will not grip around the 'metal piece' in the body; it's quite impossible to close the door and get it locked.

Bjorn,

As the Europa uses the same door catch mechanism as the Elan, this advice applies to all. As the door is opened, the "metal piece" in the body pulls the mechanism in the door open. In other words, each time the door is opened, the "metal piece" in the body resets the door mechanism so it is ready to catch when the door is closed. If you were fooling with the door mechanism and it is not reset, you must reset it by using a screw driver or any metal rod to simulate the "metal piece" in the body and pull the door mechanism into the open position so it is ready to catch when the door is closed. But then again, it could be a completely different problem. One word of caution. If you decide to adjust the "metal piece" in the body, make sure you do not take the two screws all the way out, just loosen them. If they do come out, the hidden backing plate will fall away and you will have to dismantle part of the car in order to retrieve it. But you probably already knew that! Hope this helps.
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PostPost by: b-havers » Wed May 02, 2007 6:34 am

Hi all. took the Elan for a trip last night. It has been standing for nearly one week, and guess what?
It felt a lot better. Not that is was perfect (it's a Lotus, after all), but the clutch worked without double-clutching (well; most times at least..), and the breakes seems to have stopped leaking.

Summer, here I come!!!
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
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PostPost by: b-havers » Sun May 13, 2007 7:30 pm

A great outing today, the annual spring gathering for the Norwegian SportsCar Club.

Drove the Elan - of course.
The first long trip since season started. Was of course curious how the clutc would behave, but I needn't have worried. Worked very fine all day long, so did the brakes (though I had to refill fluid once during the day).

Drove the car ca 110 kilometre, and she worked very fine.
I'm so pleased!

Everything was fine, until I halfway home drove into heavy rain. Really no bid deal, but suddenly I got soaking wet from my right knee and down the leg..
Water pored in thru the front window bottom list - or lack ot the list, should I say... Next project is now to fit new windowseal....


Some pictures from today can be sen at http://www.haverstad.net/vaar

Thor's Elan is the white one seen in the pictures, mine is the blue.
And Thor; it was very nice finally meeting you :D
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: thor » Mon May 14, 2007 8:06 am

Same happy feeling here, Bj?rn, but at least your window sorround har a vaguely silvery colour, not yellow with a hint of silver, like mine... :-) I think mine leaks a bit too, but I am a coward and never take the Elan out in the rain.

great meeting up with about 19 other Lotuses (Lotii?), and doing a 30 minute drive before entering the car show...

You had a very strange electric set up under the bonnet Bj?rn, with at least 3 fuse boxes and various relays fitted in front of the bulkhead on the nearside .. I've got the lovely single fuse box with a total of 4 fuses for the entire car. Your car's previous owner an electronics engineer or something, probably to your benefit.
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PostPost by: b-havers » Mon May 14, 2007 8:26 am

I have learned, from 22 years of owning british cars, never to trust any modifications done to the electrical systems. But I must say, on the Elan I don't know what has been done - but everything works fine ;-)

Apart from the clock, and the driving/fog lights. Even the wipers worked very fine yesterday ,-)

Due to the look of it, the modifications are old....



Wonder why the veteran car club at Lillehammer had to reschedule the annual 'Lucas Memorial Run' form midnight to midday...?
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
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PostPost by: worzel » Mon May 14, 2007 2:00 pm

Hi

Here's my take-

if I were you I'd eliminate a few things first.

Try this- remove the outlet pipe from the clutch master cylinder and substitute a bleed nipple. Bleed thru this until only fluid escapes from the nipple then keeping the pedal down have somebody tighten the nipple.

Why- well if the clutch pedal will not now move at all this clears the master cylinder of wear etc.

Next repeat this at the slavecylinder end ie reconnect the piping and restrict the movement of the piston in the slavecylinder- a "G" clamp works fine. Repeat the "bleeding" exercise. The pedal should remain rock solid meaning that the slave cylinder is ok. After that if you still have a problem you've at least eliminated wear in the seals of either.

If the clutch works fine at first then doesn't your problem is probably elsewhere- I'd look for excess movement of the slave cylinder, clearance issues at the slave cylinder rod.

Regards

John
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PostPost by: b-havers » Mon May 14, 2007 4:43 pm

After the last big bleeding, the clutch actually has improved under time and use... I don't understand it, but perhaps what is/has been of airbubbles has gathered as one relatively large bubble at the top of the brakeline, just after the master - and enough fluid passes by to make the clutch work?

I really can't explain it, but when driving the tour onSunday, the clutch gave me no problems :D
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
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ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: thor » Mon May 14, 2007 5:41 pm

very very strange... have you checked out the master cylinder? This is probably mentioned further up on this topic, but I'm lazy...:-)
Thor Svaboe
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PostPost by: b-havers » Mon May 14, 2007 6:49 pm

Yepp.
Cheked and overhauled.

I close the thread now, the clutch works very fine. Well, fine enough; afterall, it's a Lotus :?

Thansk for all advices and kind suggestions :D
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: b-havers » Thu May 31, 2012 8:07 am

Re-open an old thread.

The +2 has ben off the road a few years, due to a far-too-long engine rebuild. This seems to be getting towards a finish now, and I've taken the car for a few testlaps.
Still air in the clutch hydraulics, will re-do alle the suggestions in this thread.

But, bigger challange:
The free movement of the clutchpedal is down to millilmetres. Then the clutch engages fully, and the car either spins off - or dies.
The engine was of course separeted from the rest of the car during rebulid. Is there even the slightest possibility to fit the clutch wrong way when putting it all together again?
I suspect this problem is not down to bleeding the clutch - the only other possibility I can think of is that the clutch is fittet the wrong way.

Any thoughts?
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: Frank Howard » Thu May 31, 2012 2:55 pm

Bjorn-Anders,

I'm not sure about the possibity of installing the clutch disc backwards. If my memory serves me right, it is practically impossible to do so. If the clutch is engaging too early, the adjustment should be made at the rod coming out of the slave.

My clutch hydraulics began leaking last year and despite the fact that I had fabricated a heat shield for the slave years ago, I thought it must have given up. Much to my surprise, the slave was still operating as it should. It was the master that was leaking so I rebuilt it.

Upon bleeding the system, I ran into the same problems that everyone seems to have so I tried something that I read about on this forum.

Attach a long piece of clear plastic tubing to the bleeder screw and then run it up to the master. Clip it on to the side of the reservoir so the flow is directed into it. The reservoir should be full. Open up the bleeder screw and start pumping. Keep the reservoir topped off. Once the tubing is filled, the fluid will begin recirculating and you will not have to worry about keeping the reservoir full. If you have someone else do the pumping, you will be able to see the air bubbles in the tubing. Look closely because they may be tiny. You may see that the fluid is somewhat dark as well as it contains bits of rubber. Once the air bubbles are gone, direct the plastic tube into a jar and begin adding fluid to the reservoir while someone else continues pumping. Make sure the reservoir never emptys out. Soon the fluid in the tubing will go clear and once you tighten the bleeder screw, you will be done. I usually ask my assistant to give me a long slow pump while I am tightening the bleeder screw to ensure positive pressure which keeps any air from entering via the screw threads.

Again, I take no credit for this method because I got this idea from this forum. It certainly worked for me.
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PostPost by: elanmac » Thu May 31, 2012 4:39 pm

A few years ago I was having problems bleeding my brakes and clutch, I kept thinking it was the silicone fluid that I use. I tried doing it manually as per workshop manual then I used a pressure bleeder using the spare wheel as a source of air. I then bought a Mity vacuum pump, ?36 well spen,t no more problems. If the bleed nipple screws are a a bit loose wrap them in PTFE tape this stops even the smallest of bubbles giving a false impression of air still in the system.
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PostPost by: b-havers » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:47 am

Hi all, thanks for your tips.

I started working on the clutch today. When I got under the car, I saw (and remembered...) that I fitted a new clutch slave a few years back, but reused the old rod. Obvously, as can be seen in the photo, the bleeding screw is at top - or at least at the same height as the hose :-)

slave.jpg and


What I also saw, is that there is a slight movement (ca 3mm) on the slave itself. It seems that the part of the slave that goes thru the hole in the clutchhouse is too long. When the locking clips is in situ, the slave can be pulled back and forth a few millmetres.

slave_movement.jpg and


Guess this is not right; are there two types of clutch-slaves for the Elan?? Have I gotten the wrong one?
If soM what is th correct part number?

Is it possible to put some shims there? If so; at what side of the 'clutch house hole' should I put the shims?
(is there a way to remove the slave without removing the exhaust??)

(Update;
I've tightened the rod so there is no movement; is this an OK thing to do?)
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: 69S4 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:23 pm

I'm now on my third clutch slave cylinder and they've all had that couple of mm movement backwards and forward. Many years ago I did shim it out (I put the home made shims on the body side next to where the spring attaches) but when I replaced that cylinder I didn't bother and it makes no difference to how the clutch operates - that's been my experience anyway. I wouldn't remove the free play in the push rod - for very long anyway. Isn't it there to give some clearance between the arm and the release bearing?
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:23 pm

b-havers wrote:I've tightened the rod so there is no movement; is this an OK thing to do?)


You need some ?free play? on the push rod or when every thing gets hot and expands the release bearing will ?ride? the clutch and eventually the clutch will start to slip.
This also applies to the push rod on the clutch pedal.
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