Lotus Elan

Clutch bleeding

PostPost by: b-havers » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:53 pm

I have overhauled the clutch master pump on my '71 +2S, and did bleed the system afterwards.

Now I have to 'double-clutch' to get the car into gear, and do the same to switch gears while driving.


More bleeding doesn't seem to help.
Any suggetsion how to cure this?
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:14 pm

How much slop on the slave push rod? There should only be enough to have the clutch fully disengaged with the clutch pedal fully released.
I haven't blead a twin cam clutch (4 speed) in many years, I just start pumping the pedal, when I start to get a good pedal, I keep pumping away for another minute or two. 100 to 150 pedal strokes will clear the any air that is trapped in the system. For those of you out there laughing, try it or continue to get a faceful of brake fluid. Brakes are a different story...

Gary
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PostPost by: Frank Howard » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:58 pm

Bjorn,

If the bleed screw is positioned so that it is not at the top of the slave cylinder, no matter how much you bleed the slave, there will always be an air bubble trapped in the top of the slave cylinder. Try rotating the slave so the bleed screw is as close to 12:00 as possible. Hope this helps.
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PostPost by: b-havers » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:42 pm

Thanks, I'll give it a try again, 150 pumps with the bleeding screw at the top position.

Can't go wrong :shock:
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'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
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ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: oldokie » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:14 pm

I have found the clutch to be self-bleeding, I fill the master, barely crack the bleeder, weight of the fluid forces the air out in 2 or 3 minutes.
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PostPost by: archigator » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:08 pm

I just replaced my clutch slave cylinder and sent off the old one to get relined with brass at Sierra Automotive. Just got it back the other day and Wow! that brass is really slick! Supposed to last for a very very long time. It's such a clean job, I can't wait to reline my masters and brakes too... well, I actually can wait, but Sierra is a great resource. $55 for the brass lining of my old slave and a new re-build kit from rd enterprises ($8.00) and I'm loaded for bear.

http://www.brakecylinder.com/index.htm

Don't want to be bleedin' that clutch any more.

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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:07 am

I tried to position the bleed screw at the highest point when I replaced my slave cylinder recently but the shield between the engine and gearbox prevents any rotation.

Are they all like this or do I need to modify the shield a bit?
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PostPost by: b-havers » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:38 am

Just spoke to "Mr Lotus" in Norway, Ove Persson, about this.
Ove is a well known man in the Norwegian Lotus family, and runs his own garage, dedicated to Lotuses.

He said that bleeding Elan clutches normally is no problem :?
He also said bleeding Europa brakes is a nightmare compared to the Elan's clutch. Can't say I'm looking foreward to bleeding my Europa's brakes after this conversation.... :cry:


What he does, is fitting a rubber hose to the bleeding screw, and open the bleeding screw just a little bit - hardly any fluid is to pass thru. The rubber hose end must be at least at the same height as the clutch master.

The, repeat slow (very slow) pumping movements (150 ?), remember also a very slow return of the pedal.
As the slave now is the lowest point in the circuit, and fluid is heavier than air, the air will either come out through the rubber hose - or go back out through the master.

If the bleeding screw is opened too much, it might result in fluid running out into the hose. If overflow, let the fluid pour into a clean cup or something, and reuse the fluid (if clean).

I'll try to find time to test this during the weekend, and will let you know the result afterwards.
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: chicagojeff » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:01 am

I recently had the same problem. Best solution for me was to attach a rubber tube to the bleeder valve, and have it dangle into a half filled jar of new fluid. Then, open the bleed screw on the slave, pump and hold a dozen times, and then just let it sit for a while. 30 minutes later it was completely bled.

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PostPost by: b-havers » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:35 am

A lot of good suggestion have turned up :D

I'll just HAVE to find time to try them all during the weekend (well, hopefully I'll succeed on the forst attempt), and perhaps I'm back on the road very soon ;-)

Thank you all, I'll let you know the result!
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: b-havers » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:46 pm

Well, as the rain poured down, it was time for an enjoyable day in the garage.

Put the Elan on jackstands, and bled the clutch.
Used the 'long hose with end higher then reservoir' solution. Hardly opened the bleeding screw, and pumped - slowly - a lot of times (gues not the suggested 150 times, bur perhaps half of it?).

As I said, rain is pouring down, so I didn't take the car for a test drive. This will have to wait until the streets have dried up.
But; I think I felt that the clutch was 'harder' to push in after this bleeding operation. Hopefully it has improved, so I can use the car this summer :lol:

Also did some work on the Europa, but that's for another forum

:shock:
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: iain.hamlton » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:54 pm

A couple of ideas:

1. I had trouble getting the clutch absolutely bled right, so left the pedal held down with a peice of wood wedged against the seat runner over night, then let it up in the morning. After doing this for several nights, the last of the air was gone. It bubbles back up through the MC resevoir.

2. I use a circlip, but take the slop out, as it is narrower than the C-Clip, slot by packing the groove with a small cable tie. This also keeps the groove clean and stops the cylinder moving.

Sorry for being a bodger.

best regards, iain
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PostPost by: b-havers » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:35 pm

Had a blast in the Elan last night.
First it felt good, then,after a couple of gearchanges,it was back to start; double clutching, and beating the car out of gear...

shit....
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

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PostPost by: thor » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:31 pm

Bjorn, Ove Persson who??? and where?
Thor Svaboe
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PostPost by: b-havers » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:32 pm

There's an email on it's way to you, Thor.

To get rid of the bad feelings about the Elan's clutch, I have spent 3 hrs in the garage with the Europa tonight.
Fitted the doorhandle and -lockmechanism to the RH side door.
Strange thing happens;
When testing the lock mechanism manually, everythings works fine.
When fitting it to the door, and testing manually, it still works OK.
When trying to close the door, it will not grip around the 'metal piece' in the body; it's quite impossible to close the door and get it locked.
Left hand side worked fine..

Well, far away from the +2's clutch story...
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'95 Caterham Seven Roadsport
'02 Elise Supercharged
ex Europa S2
ex Elan +2S 130
ex Esprit Turbo
ex Caterham SS

Life is too short to drive boring cars
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