Starter has eaten the Flywheel on my S3…

[rgh0]

This is the type of starter.

https://oldtimer-shop.eu/product/ford-c ... 9M0ZrCyTNr

It was discussed recently in another post. It is a 3 bolt mounting but you just use the 2 bolts that fit the bell housing. The third bolt hole lug can be cut off for extra clearance if needed. I got a 9 tooth pinion from Bosch to fit it. I dont know if they are still available but I suspect it would work with the 10 tooth version also.

cheers
Rohan

[Peter +2]

Many thanks Rohan

[2cams70]

@2cams: I am sorry not to have responded sooner to your advice. I did a ‚test‘ the brise, once I removed it. To my eye the pinion pushed out before it rotated, is there a proper test to perform outside the car?

Agree it would be a difficult thing to observe. Perhaps you could try painting one tooth of the pinion gear and videoing what is happening with the pinion as it is pushed forward during engagement. By replaying the video in slow motion you could then observe any rotation of the marked tooth as the pinion is pushed forward. If you knew the frame rate of the video you might even be able to estimate the speed of rotation. To my eye your ring gear damage is mainly down to gears grinding together because of engagement being attempted at unsynchronised rotation speeds rather than incorrect engagement depth or mis matched tooth profiles.

[gus]

The starter ring should not be welded on at all to the flywheel
The starter ring should be heated and shrunk on to the flywheel.

After cutting the old ring carefully off I heated mine gently, not too hot, with an acetylene torch and it just dropped on. I then left it for a couple of hours to cool and all was good.

I have fitted literally hundreds of them of various makes over the years this way !

I have heard of people putting them in the oven to heat them up but not tried this myself. I would have thought it questionable if you could get the oven hot enough but who knows.

Alan.

The reason the ring gear is welded on is that the factory starter is incorrect for the ring gear fitment!
The ring gear is pressed on from the nearside of the ring gear,as the Fords used a preengaged starter.
Lotus no doubt saved 49P by using an inertial starter that comes from the wrong side of the flywheel.
When I first took my engine apart circa 1986, the ring gear was already 30 to 50 thou away from the shoulder.
I pinned it to the ring gear, some weld it.

[andyelan]

Hi there.

The reason the Elan and Plus 2 have an inertia starter is that a pre-engaged one from that period wouldn't fit. The Twin Cam Europa did have a pre-engaged starter but that has a lot space around around the back of the engine.

Personally I cant understand why there seems such a need to change from the standard Lucas inertia starter. That's what's on my Plus 2 and it's 100% reliable. I know there are a lot of dodgy rebuilt units out there, but if they're in good condition or rebuilt properly then they're fine

Regards
Andy

[2cams70]

The inertia starter when you think of how it works is actually a very clever and simple design. More so in fact than a pre engaged started. Whoever originally came up with the idea to use the pinion and it’s inertia together with a screw thread to enable it to engage was a very clever and lateral thinker. A pre engaged starter on the other hand just engages according to conventional logic.

[512BB]

''Personally I cant understand why there seems such a need to change from the standard Lucas inertia starter'

The reason people like to change Andy is because of some, or all of the folllowing reasons:

They have bad earths on their car.

Their engine is not set up correctly, ie carbs, timing etc.

They are trying to start the car with a duff battery.

Their inertia starter is duff and or the pinion has beem mashed up.

They have the incorrect pinion fitted.

Their solenoid is duff.

A host of other problems that I cannot think of right now.

As both you and I know Andy, if all the above are in good order, the good old inertia starter is just fine and I for one shall continue to use.

Leslie

[h20hamelan]

The reasons for me

Lighter weight

Parts availability ( cant get Lucas stuff here )

I would guess it draws less amps

[Hawksfield]

Hi Leslie
+1
I can get all the parts to service my starter ,solenoid, bendix. Cannot see why I should spend lots cash on something that seems to give trouble.

Just my opinion
John

[RetroNinja]

hey will, i believe philipp was saying the ring gear meant for a pre-engaged starter like the brise is different from a inertia type. its got the same tooth count, same diameter, but the gear's placement in relation to the starter is diff. not sure if its just for brise or for all pre-engaged starters tho, could be both. hope that clears it up a bit, cheers mate.

[alan.barker]

+1 Leslie,
No problem with Lucas Starter.
The problem is preventative maintenance
Alan

[512BB]

As I type Achtung Spitfire going over, a regular occurence here, as I live on the flightpath between Duxford and Old Warden. Earlier today I could not believe it when I saw the Blenhem, or is it Blenheim, also fly over. Now that is a rare sight in the skies. The only one in the UK and 1 of only 2 flying in the world.

I digress. 'The problem is preventative maintenance'

Or lack of Alain.

An addition. The ring gear is already shagged when a new inertia starter is fitted. Engine will still not turn over correctly and owner blames new starter.

Leslie

[englishmaninwales]

As I type Achtung Spitfire going over, a regular occurence here, as I live on the flightpath between Duxford and Old Warden. Earlier today I could not believe it when I saw the Blenhem, or is it Blenheim, also fly over. Now that is a rare sight in the skies. The only one in the UK and 1 of only 2 flying in the world.

I digress. 'The problem is preventative maintenance'

Or lack of Alain.

An addition. The ring gear is already shagged when a new inertia starter is fitted. Engine will still not turn over correctly and owner blames new starter.

Leslie

I saw what I took to be a Blenheim pass over (near Shrewsbury) a few days ago. First time I’ve seen one flying.
Malcolm
(Apologies for the thread divergence! +1 for original Lucas starter)

[512BB]

'First time I’ve seen one flying'

Thats because it is the only ONE flying, in this country Malcolm. Must have been making a whistlestop tour of some of the old airfields. It was only put back in the air 2 or 3 years ago.

There was a great programme on the TV a year or so back filmed with a disabled young chap, who has a ppl, as he folllowed the restoration of a Mosquito in the US, owned by Chuck Yager was it? Chap owns many WW2 warbirds and displays them at Oshkosh. Watch it if you can. They take the disabled reporter up in it. Brilliant.

Leslie