CV Joints suspension droop

[bast0n]

I bought the Mick Miller items many years ago. I think that the CVs were Sierra 4X4 items and I have had no problems over many thousands of miles. Quite transformed the car for fast everyday/holiday in the mountains motoring.


What do Sierra 4x4 drivers use to replace their CVs??

D

[twincamman]

The rear suspension on elans is in dire need of a camber limiting device to control rear axle droop ...like a rear sway bar. Or z bar as used on ff and fv cars ...the rear sway bar on my car limits the droop and avoids this problem ...Ed

[ceejay]

Firstly: Allow me to get up on the soapbox:

G'Day All.

Steep drive angles are not an issue for the elantrikbits designed & built
CV drive shaft conversion. We use only GKN Lobro CV joints, which is the same
type that you find on the humble VW Beetle, now for those that may not know,
the humble VW CV joint can withstand 250+HP transmitted through them, they
are bullet proof when used on the small elan or the plus two elan.

We do not have a problem sourcing brand new high quality GKN CVs and
boots to manufacture our conversions.

With our conversion we have never advocated the need for droop limiting
straps, cables or anything else.... they are simply NOT required, providing
that the rear suspension is within the factory specs and settings!

No mods are required apart from perhaps having to remove the
fail safe spigot on the diff output shafts (later series elan)

If you are one of the 3,461 viewers (To date) who have watched our demo video
on Youtube, then you would begin to understand just what our conversion is
all about, and what it is capable of, and if that is not enough, read the customer
testimonials and feedback at our web site:
http://www.elantrikbits.com/

Every now and again we receive a grumble or two from a cash strapped
elan owner that our conversion is too expensive, well, I'm sorry old chap,
it?s like anything else in this world, you get what you pay for.

We have customers in the USA who have purchased several CV
conversions from us to install in their various road and club competition
elan's.

Why install a product where you continue to have niggles and problems
with boots and CVs and other issues.

I could go on, but it's best if you head on over to the web site and read
a bit more about the Aussie designed & built product.

In a nutshell, our conversion works brilliantly!

OK, I'm down off the soapbox now.... Have a nice day.

ceejay

[twincamman]

not to put too much of a point on it ALL irs cars need a limiter to avoid positive camber over steer -and droop control --ed

[Orsom Weels]

I don't think, under normal driving conditions it's an issue. The Miller shafts and indeed other similar ones have done thousands of miles with no problems. I haven't spoken to Susan Miller about this subject but I believe she told Tim the problem is with the unavailability of quality CV joints of the type Mick (Miller) originally designed the shafts to work with.

To confirm, to the best of my understanding, there had been no problems untill the unavailability of genuine Ford joints, Sue mentioned Granada, but I think Sierra ones are the same. Problems have only arisen since she has had to source the joints from pattern manufacturers, obviously made to a lesser quality or different tollerance. She seemed to beleive the problems were down to the accute angles attained with the Elan on full suspension drop, normal running angles are no problem, a beleif reinforced by the fact that, despite being a heavier car, there had been no problems with the +2 kits. I don't think there have been loads of failures, but enough to discourage Sue from selling any more for the time being, at least. I get the impression that she's the sort of person that if she's not 100% happy with a product, she wont sell it, & will always stand by anything she has sold should there be a problem, very comendable. I wonder how many would continue to sell them to get rid of their stock of shafts etc?

Regards, Tim

[Elanman99]

[quote="twincamman"]The rear suspension on elans is in dire need of a camber limiting device to control rear axle droop ...like a rear sway bar. Or z bar as used on ff and fv cars ...the rear sway bar on my car limits the droop and avoids this problem ...Ed[/quote]

My response to this is, WHY?

How can the Elan rear suspension have survived since 1963 if it has always needed its travel reduced?

Ian Phillips

[elansprint71]

I'm reasonably sure that Ford have not produced any CV joints in living memory- they bought them in and I'm also reasonably sure that they got them from GKN too. The Ford network might have stopped stocking them in their parts centres because there are hardly any of their rust-bucket Sierras left on the road.
No doubt Susan will track down another source of supply.

Right- I'm just off to re-design the independent rear suspension of my TT quattro, apparently there is a droop-limiter missing. Vorsprung Durch Technic? My arse.

[elj221c]

not to put too much of a point on it ALL irs cars need a limiter to avoid positive camber over steer -and droop control --ed

I'm not a suspension expert but I think this only applies to the swing axle design, i.e. the Triumph Herald.

My response to this is, WHY?
How can the Elan rear suspension have survived since 1963 if it has always needed its travel reduced?Ian Phillips

I have to agree with Ian.
At no time during my Elan's rear suspension travel does the camber go positive.......

[nebogipfel]

How can the Elan rear suspension have survived since 1963 if it has always needed its travel reduced?

Ian Phillips

I had the same thought?

I assume we have all just been lucky for the last 49 years

[collins_dan]

Has anyone ever replaced the CV joints on their drive shafts? Mine are over 30 years old and when I recently replaced a torn boot, there was no noticeable wear, but their function wasn't perfectly smooth, particularly as you varied the angle. Mine, I believe, are a homegrown variety similar to what RD sells with the replacement differential output shafts. I believe they are standard VW CV joints, but unsure of the exact dimensions. When I replaced the boots, I just got the standard VW Beetle boots with the integrated metal attachment ring and they fit perfectly. Thanks, Dan

[cusword]

"apparently, the Ford items were the only ones Mick was happy with & nothing else has been found to replace them"

Does anyone know what these Ford units are?

dwc

[Jeff@Jae]

The CV axles we supply use the VW Lobro CV joints (and also come with heavy duty diff output axles to fix the next weak link) and while they shouldn't be run at full droop they never present a problem in real world use or racing. I suppose of one were to rally the car and do full throttle jumps you would add a limiter cable but no one else should even worry about it. These axles have been made for decades by the same guy that supplies us, RD and Dave Bean. Lots of them running around and no issues other than a few racers that occasionally need to refresh things in the off season rebuild.

[Orsom Weels]

"apparently, the Ford items were the only ones Mick was happy with & nothing else has been found to replace them"

Does anyone know what these Ford units are?

dwc

Susan said Granada, but I think they are the same as Sierra ?

I'm reasonably sure that Ford have not produced any CV joints in living memory- they bought them in and I'm also reasonably sure that they got them from GKN too. The Ford network might have stopped stocking them in their parts centres because there are hardly any of their rust-bucket Sierras left on the road.
No doubt Susan will track down another source of supply

I suspect your'e right, Ford wouldn't have made them but they would have stipulated the design specification & someone like GKN would manufacture to that spec, or better! If Ford no longer stock them, you can bet that the original manufacturer no longer makes them. Pattern replacements will almost certainly be made, probably in China, to a bare minimum spec, probably good enough for their intended application but when subjected to more acute angles they may not be as forgiving as the originals. I guess this is where Sue's problems stem from.

Regards, Tim

[miked]

Back to the point I made earlier. When does anybody mess about at full droop with acute angles sufficient to cause damage ??? When jacked, at droop, surley we only turn by hand to check things. I can't see this causing any mechanical damage. I am not a mech' engineer.

If some are low quality products, is it not the driving that must cause the harm?? It is a pity that there is not an examination of several failed units by a proper design guy to give a definitive answer. One thing is for sure, there had to be sufficient level of complaint to reach this point of no longer supplying.

Mike

[nebogipfel]

The shafts were always referred to as the Mick Miller/GKN driveshaft conversion.