Lotus Elan

Pedal play questions

PostPost by: monkeyodeath » Sun May 10, 2020 11:04 pm

I'm finally getting around to addressing one of the quibbles I have with my S3 -- the pedals. Specifically, the accelerator pedal has lots of lateral play. Not so much that it interferes with the other pedals, but enough that it's a little disconcerting while driving.

I had a couple questions:

1) Can the pedal shaft be removed without disconnecting the brake and clutch master cylinder hydraulic lines? The Lotus manual I'm looking at indicates as much but I'm wondering if I can just remove the pins holding the pushrods to the pedals.

2) From what I can see, there's what looks like a metal bushing on either side of the accelerator pedal tube. Is this a standard part that I can buy? (couldn't find it in the Bean and RDent catalogs but I just might not know what to call it) The various pins used on the pedal shaft and the washers used on the holder look homemade, so I'm curious if this is stock or a modification.

The other pedals feel fine, so I'm hoping it's just bushing wear on the accelerator pedal. Car is LHD.

Thanks in advance for any pointers you may have!
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sun May 10, 2020 11:42 pm

You can remove the pins from the push-rods if you cut an access hatch in the top of the pedal box. Leave a reasonable flange all round to keep the box rigid. (I have fitted adjustable length push-rods to fine tune pedal free play)

You might be able to remove the pivot shaft.

But you will not be practically able to replace it because of the pedal return springs, working upside down in the footwell ! :shock:

Your best bet is to disconnect the hydraulic lines, remove the box complete, and repair/modify as required.

It makes future work a lot easier if you braze the cylinder retaining nuts to the pedal box bulkhead.

The above is based on a RHD +2, your set up might be different.

:)
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PostPost by: monkeyodeath » Sun May 10, 2020 11:54 pm

Here's something I'm confused about -- is the pedal box just a +2 thing?

I've seen lots of pictures of the pedal box online, but my Elan has nothing of the sort. The pedals are sitting underneath the fiberglass hump in the body, below the VIN plate, and either side of the pedal shaft attaches to the body as well. No metal box anywhere.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sun May 10, 2020 11:57 pm

monkeyodeath wrote:Here's something I'm confused about -- is the pedal box just a +2 thing?

I've seen lots of pictures of the pedal box online, but my Elan has nothing of the sort. The pedals are sitting underneath the fiberglass hump in the body, below the VIN plate, and either side of the pedal shaft attaches to the body as well. No metal box anywhere.


So there is a difference !

Any chance you could put up a drawing from your workshop manual ?

:)
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PostPost by: monkeyodeath » Mon May 11, 2020 3:00 am

Here's a shot of the pedal area. As you can see, just fiberglass. My shop manual doesn't have a useful diagram.

IMG_8937.jpg and


And here's a short video of the pedal wobbling around on the shaft.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PpSgSqeq8iHBziR97
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PostPost by: Concrete-crusher » Mon May 11, 2020 6:11 am

Hi there's no pedal box on a 2 seater elan, and you can simply remove the pedals Once the master cylinders are disconnected. Yours should not move like that so you will need to remove it to see what's worn or missing

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PostPost by: saildrive2001 » Mon May 11, 2020 5:39 pm

It can be removed as an assembly after disconnecting the pedals from the clutch, brake & accelerator. It is not an easy job to remove & is definitely harder to install. The outer bearing assy. on my RHD car is attached to a metal bracket bonded into the fibreglass body. Getting access to the nuts behind this is not easy but possible, plus mine has spacer washers to get the correct end play. It looks like your car has the same bearing on the outboard end of the shaft. I find it easier to remove the seat to allow me to lie down in the car with my head under the dash.
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PostPost by: Craven » Mon May 11, 2020 7:26 pm

Unfortunately the shaft is made into the fixing bracket which has to be unbolted from the master cylinders. Shown is RHD.
Do not remove the bracket fixed to the lattice/body, the pedal shaft is just pushed into it and can be pulled free. The pedal assembly is made up and can only be partly disassemble, from memory you will be able to fix the accelerator pedal problem as this does come off the shaft.
P1020289.JPG and

P1020288.JPG and
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Mon May 11, 2020 7:45 pm

There is a separate spindle for the accelerator. IIRC, you should be able to tighten up just the spindle for this. I sort of remember that spindle being a shoulder bolt and an nylok nut. Don't get it too tight!!!

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PostPost by: vstibbard » Mon May 11, 2020 9:22 pm

Here's my experience and recommendations having removed and refitted a few master cylinders and pedal assemblies over the years.

1. Remove springs from brake and clutch pedal (note the pairing)
2. Remove accelerator clevis pin
3. Remove brake and clutch mater cylinder clevis pins (the pins that attach to the pedals)
4. Unbolt brake and clutch mater cylinders (be careful you do not have to remove these as they will sit there with bolts pushed back through the firewall)
5. Remove two small bolts that attach the long section of pedal assembly which comes closes to rear off car, they will be in vertical face at above footwell/pedals at bottom of the engine firewall. Take care to collect aluminium spacers which are fitted.
6. DO NOT loosen the cast fitting that is bolted to the lattice frame. With care and patina you can work the pedal assembly to the left and out of this support casting. Refitting and getting this support casting into position is a nightmare of a job...

I can't remenber the details for stripping the pedal assembly but it is quite clear, split pins, washer and basic shaft, I've had one worn severely in a S1 that was raced from new, we ended up using speedy sleeve to recover the shaft are in question and reamed pedal to suit. When assembling I used AN washer harder and two sizes allowed closer tolerances to be achieved.

Cheers

Vaughan
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:59 am

My post from above is only correct for a LHD pedals. I just looked at the late parts book and it appears that all 3 pedals share the common shaft on RHD models, but I am restoring a LHD pre-airflow coupe which, at this stage, is relatively easy to see the pedals and mounting. But I am not going to remove the pedals from the body shell again.
I'll try today to get a photo of the system, but all is painted black.
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'67 Elan FHC pre-airflow
'67 Elan S3 SE upgrade to 26R by Original owner
'58 Eleven S2 (ex-works)
'62 20/22 FJ (ex-Yamura)
'70 Elan +2S RHD
'61 20 FJ project
'76 Modus M1 F3
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PostPost by: monkeyodeath » Fri May 15, 2020 4:17 am

Managed to get the pedals removed from the car (thanks so much for the helpful tips!), and I'm understanding things more clearly.

The part of the shaft that the throttle pedal rides on appears to be in okay shape.

However, the collar seems to be worn oblong, causing the wiggle.

It looks very much to me like this part has been replaced in the past. It looks like the original pedal and actuator arm were cut from their original assembly and welded to a replacement piece of tubing. (pics below). Looks like whoever did it put some copper anti-seize on the parts, though not much is left.

My initial instinct is to cut out the old tubing and replace with a new piece. Does this seem like a good idea or are there other solutions I might not be thinking of -- maybe something with a bushing?

IMG_8949.jpg and


IMG_8950.jpg and
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PostPost by: monkeyodeath » Fri May 15, 2020 6:18 am

Also realizing that this looks like an RHD pedal box reconfigured for LHD. The pedals have been relocated and the gas pedal hangs to the right of the metal support piece.

In stock LHD boxes, it seems that all 3 pedals are attached to the left of the metal support, then the driver's side pedal has a dogleg bend to the right.

Weakness of this setup is that there's no bushing like there is with the clutch pedal, just steel on steel. The steel collar that the gas pedal is welded to is oblong from years of movement.

IMG_8952.jpg and
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri May 15, 2020 6:22 am

It could be original they were pretty basic in construction and quality. Am I interpreting your description correctly that the wear is that in the pedal which slides over the pipe? Logically as the pedel moves through relatively small arc it will be out of round, it could be worse if at some time a heavy spring has been fitted or extra springs for racing or club sprints etc.

I've a barely used set which I can post some pictures tomorrow for you if that would help.

Vaughan
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PostPost by: Craven » Fri May 15, 2020 4:04 pm

Not immediately obvious but in true Lotus fashion the pedal assembly arranges a crossover of the clutch and brake, that is right hand pedal operates and left hand master cylinder.
My repair would be, find an oilite bush that fits the shaft and size pedal to suit.
https://www.bowman.co.uk/bearings/oilit ... g-bearings
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