Lotus Elan

Screen washer pump

PostPost by: Maulden7 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:58 pm

After nearly 48 years, the mechanical water pump part of my original S2 Elan screen washer / wiper unit has failed, it no longer sucks any fluid from the container - I must complain!

The electrical section works fine.

I have the whole lot out of the car & have separated the electrical wiper switch from the mechanical water pump.

It does not appear possible to open / repair the water pump as it seems to be a sealed unit (Tudor manufacture) so my question is ...... anywhere I can buy a replacement, or have I got to replace the pump with an electrical one?

Thanks for any advice.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:25 pm

I wonder if one for a Mini might work? Only manual one I could find on Moss Motors

361-160 $36.95 WASHER PUMP, manual

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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:36 am

Thanks for the suggestion.

I've found two possibilities so far :-

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The first is listed as a Mini item. The second looks like the easiest to connect to the electrical front end, but seems to be quite long & I'm not sure there is room? Also the plunger is a bit "fat" & also may not fit into the electrical switch.

Need to ask some questions as to dimensions.

Any more suggestions gratefully received.
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:19 pm

Image

Hmmmmm? Wonder if the shaft for the knob is the same?

For A Spitfire Mk IV & 1500
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:13 pm

Been confirmed that the shaft is identical to the Elan original in shape & size, so the original knob will fit. The company are sending me a switch / pump unit on a sale or return basis so that I can confirm if it all fits or not.
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PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:43 am

Do a search on eBay UK for "Tudor Washer Pump", there are a couple of items that look the same...

i.e. http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=tudor+washer+pump&_sacat=0&_from=R40

There's a Bedford truck NOS part that looks the same.
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:34 am

Thanks - if the knob comes off the shaft & this will accept the original knob, then the Bedford one might be indeed be ok.

With some guidance from Brian Buckland I'm also investigating Ford based sources, & have found a correct NOS Ford pump (even have the Ford part number) Only problem is that it's in Australia!

Will report back on the Spitfire unit when it arrives.
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:22 pm

Feedback on the Spitfire based item is not ideal I'm afraid.

The functions are fine, the original knob is a snug / tight fit, & works the wiper switch no problem (it has terminals for up to two speed, self parking, wipers) The washer pump has better pressure than the original Tudor unit.

BUT ...... the main fixing shaft at the front is larger than on the original & will not pass through the hole in the two dashboard "hats". It would do with slight enlargement, but the fixing nut will not go inside the front "hat", so even with the shaft in place it is not easy to see how you are going to secure the whole unit to the dash if you are to use the original "hats". Dispense with the "hats" & it would be easy, but this is not what most would want to do.

I separated the switch part from the pump (they just screw together) & it would be possible to fit the new pump to the original wiper switch, but the plunger in the original switch does not travel far enough to operate the pump, so no go that way.

I've told the supplier & he understands the problem, however I've decided to keep the unit, & attempt to reduce / rethread the front fixing (there is plenty of plastic) which should then allow the original chrome fixing nut & all the other original parts to be used.

Summary - works ok, can be made to fit & look very original, but not ideal.
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PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:23 pm

Years ago I cut away most of the metal surround the swollen rubber bag leaving just three pillars and this relieved the pressure and restored normal operation for a few years.

Then I sacrificed the rubber and fitted a microswitch in place and an electric (Halfords) pump next to the bottle. (Try to use a better pump than that and mount it down by the bottle to help it prime itself.) It looks and operates like the original apart from the small travel to wash.
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:02 pm

Thanks for that - something similar was in my mind as a long stop, & in fact I've already bought an electric pump from the local motor factors (placing it by the washer bottle is a good idea that hadn't occurred to me)

Does fitting a non-return valve in the original system before the manual pump help as well for the same reason?
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PostPost by: DJ908 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:27 am

Good day Mr Maulden

I think that if you fit a non return valve before the either the manual or an electrical pump it acts as a sort of foot valve and should keep the pump primed. It may not be so important with a manual pump which I suspect works as a positive displacement pump whereas the electrical pumps, of the type used in these cars, and not so good at self priming. I do not think it would cause any harm.

I think I am on my second electrical pump on my car, now mounted beside the washer bottle rather than on its top. With a non-return valve somewhere in the system.

Neither the washer nor the wipers get much use in this country. I can remember, in the late 1960's emptying a full washer bottle on the M1 on one trip from Yorkshire to London in the car. And I suspect I was driving half blind for most of that trip. Driving in a shower of dirty spray all the way. The washer pump was really active on that journey.

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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:05 am

Thanks Robert - good to see you here.

Presumably the most obvious place to fit a non-return valve is inside the washer bottle itself on the end of the tube!

One is on order.
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PostPost by: Emma-Knight » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:53 pm

I tested some long time stored and used original pumps. There was no pressure build up on the "out" side. Try if pump builds up pressure when both ports are held close by fingers. If so, close the "in" side, if there is a pumping function on the "out" side, the non return valve is weak.
So - bought a non returm valve with filter mesh, fitted this to the bottom end of the Tudor-bottle suction tube - and pump works fine. You can get these purpose designed non return valve filters from british car part suppliers for little money.

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PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:06 pm

Maulden7 wrote:Thanks Robert - good to see you here.

Presumably the most obvious place to fit a non-return valve is inside the washer bottle itself on the end of the tube!

One is on order.

The original pipe had one, a simple flap valve at the bottom of the pipe.

The manual bag pump doesn't have a valve, I believe, and must have relied on the small jet holes to prevent back flow on refill. I fitted an extra non-return valve just before the jets as the air stream seemed to pump air back into the system, over time, and delay the fluid delivery just when needed most. All sorts of algae grow in the pipes too so they need flushing through regularly with the jets out.
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