Lotus Elan

S4 Power Window Lift Motors cross over parts

PostPost by: gearbox » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:24 am

I just took my driver side door apart on my 69 SE and took apart the window lift motor. Unfortunately, the magnets had broken and the armature bearing seized on the can side. I tapped the can off, but the bearing pulled out with armature and you cannot press it back in. The good news is that the head unit is in good condition.

Now I hear that the Lotus motor was common motor used in American cars, Ford? So all I have to do is find the correct motor and change up the heads. Does anyone know what unit I need from what car and what year? Thanks Allan
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 am

Hi Allan

English Ford Cortina mk1 windscreen wiper motor is the source that Lotus used to coble together the window winder motors.

elan-f14/electric-window-motor-t17965.html

elan-archive-f16/electric-window-motors-t6043.html

elan-archive-f16/plus-electric-window-motor-t8010.html

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PostPost by: gearbox » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:09 am

Hi Gary;

Not sure Ford Cortina Mk1's are all that common in the US, I was looking for a quick fix from a local parts shop. As far as I can see, the 1968 -1971 Ford Mustang wiper motor looks like it may work, or at least the can looks the same. Since my head is still intact, all I need is the motor and can. I just poured over all the ebay listings for 1968-1971 Ford wiper motors and it seems that the Mustang, Galaxie, and some other models uses the same motor. Not sure if the parts stores will still carry 1970 wiper motors but it's a shot. I'll let you know if it works. Thanks Allan
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:33 am

gearbox wrote:
...listings for 1968-1971 Ford wiper motors and it seems that the Mustang, Galaxie, and some other models uses the same motor. Not sure if the parts stores will still carry 1970 wiper motors but it's a shot. I'll let you know if it works. Thanks Allan


Allan, not sure if they will fit or not, but looks worth a shot. I see Cardone lists them, which makes NA parts store availability pretty likely. I was able to order Cardone rebuilt motors for my Plus 2 thru a local parts store, and they are late sixties / early seventies GM motors. Only about a week wait, and excellent quality.

Is this the one you are after?

http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product ... t%3a%3a%3a

I looked up the '63 Cortina wiper motor and they offer a re-built service (i.e. send your core in thru the parts store & they re-build), so that could be another option available, although yours sounds pretty far gone. :)

The Cardone site has a 'where to buy' tab that might help.

Cheers!
Stu
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:41 am

Hi Allan

Maybe give these folks a call. They list one for a 1969 Cortina

1969 Wiper Motor-Windshield
Ford Cortina NOF $20
Austin Auto Salvage USA-PA(Pipersville) Request_Quote 215-766-8180

or

1969 Wiper Motor-Windshield
Ford Cortina
GS9864 $Call
Jean Guy's Used Cars and Parts Inc. USA-NH(Pelham) (Outside NH)1-800-535-7171 (NH)1-800-235-7171

I don't know if they are the same or not, I never looked but probably closer than a Mustang, for $20 maybe worth a call get, a photo from here

elan-f14/wiring-window-motors-t17040.html

or use this one from the mk1 LoCort
LoCort wiper motor.JPG and


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PostPost by: gearbox » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:53 pm

Ok, I ran down to the local parts store and Cardone is still selling the 1968-71 Mustang Wiper motors. Pep Boys had them for $54, but paid $20 more because I have problem with instant gratification and wanted it now lol.
Door Left 008.JPG and


First thing I noticed was that the "can" was the same in diameter and was identical, except that it was about 1/2 inch longer. Lotus on right, Mustang on left.
Door Left 002.JPG and
Door Left 006.JPG and


I then pulled the Mustang wiper motor apart and saw that the armature was longer, but the critical component to me was the screw drive which was identical to the Lotus and the distance between the stator where the brushes contact the armature to the tip of the screw was the exact same. Thanks to Henry Ford and his mass production techniques. The windings of the Mustang motor was much bigger, so I assume this motor will have more power and speed in pulling the window up, which is a good thing..... I hope.
Door Left 001.JPG and


I dropped the armature into the Lotus Head unit, carefully making sure to clear the brushes, and it sat in perfectly. Gave it a twist, and no grinding, no hard spots, just nice and smooth operation. The Mustang can had aluminum bolts compared with the steel Lotus ones to hold the can in place, so I was very careful not to strip them out. But the threads and position of the bolts matched with the Lotus head.
Door Left 004.JPG and


I should have pulled out the manual and to find out how the unit was suppose to be powered, but I had already explained my need for instant gratification, so I connected a battery charger to the negative ground pin, and the positive to one of the green/red wires, but no joy. I then reconnected the positive to the other double green wire from the unit and still no joy. The only combination I had left was connecting the negative to the single green wire and the positive to the double wire and success!!!!, the motor began turning like a Dutch windmill. Not too slow, not too fast, and with alot of torque. I reversed the polarity and it starting turning in the opposite direction. The window lift motor is now operational. The only thing that may pose a problem with this repair would the additional 1/2 inch length. I looked at pictures I took during the door strip down and see that I may just have enough room to clear the extended motor. If not, I do not remember anything behind the motor in the door, so all I would have to do is grind a small bit of the fiberglass away to clear the motor.
017.JPG and


I am very happy with this solution. Needless to say, I am sure these wiper motors are available much cheaper in salvage yards as the fitment for these motors range through many years and numerious models, Mustangs, Torinos, Galaxies, etc. I am also thinking that they may be a exact motor out there that I had not found yet. I basically went on Ebay and searched for any wiper motor in the period. Maybe power seats? But I am sure that I was not the first one to go through this process, so if anyone out there knows what other motors are available in abundaant supplies in the US, please post. But for now, I hope this may help other Elan owners looking for a solution. Best regards Allan
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:29 pm

Excellent writeup! I was struggling with using a generic hot rod setup but there just isn't room. This looks like a nice replacement.

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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:47 pm

Did the Mustang have any sort of limit-switches fitted? If there is a lot more torque there might be a problem in the Elan if the motor keeps churning when the glass reaches either end of its travel. I hope you don't hear a loud snap crackle and pop, followed by the cable coming off its pulleys.
If it works, I think you have found a good solution. Thanks for the detailed report.
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PostPost by: gearbox » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:19 pm

elansprint71 wrote:Did the Mustang have any sort of limit-switches fitted? If there is a lot more torque there might be a problem in the Elan if the motor keeps churning when the glass reaches either end of its travel. I hope you don't hear a loud snap crackle and pop, followed by the cable coming off its pulleys.
If it works, I think you have found a good solution. Thanks for the detailed report.



I took the Mustang head apart just to have a look and see if there was any other parts I could use. I did not see any internal limit switch and since it was a wiper motor, don't think they had them anyway. I'm not concerned too much about the torque as most of my vintage cars with power windows do not have limit switches and I tend to stop pushing the button when I hear the window seat. Plus the motor gearing stays the same and the larger windings will give it more power, but I can't believe it to be that substantial.

On another note, I see the double wire connected to one brush, and the other one connects behind the red plastic cover. Removing the grease, I see there are two pins sticking up that touches the gear wheel which seems to be insulated in places. The one pin is connected to one of the double wires, and the other pin is not connected to anything. Anyone knows what this is suppose to do? Thanks Allan
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:23 am

Apologies; I was assuming that the wiper motor was also used as a window-lifter on the Mustang- doh! :oops:
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:28 am

gearbox wrote:On another note, I see the double wire connected to one brush, and the other one connects behind the red plastic cover. Removing the grease, I see there are two pins sticking up that touches the gear wheel which seems to be insulated in places. The one pin is connected to one of the double wires, and the other pin is not connected to anything. Anyone knows what this is suppose to do?


It's the wiper self parking sytem, have a look at this thread........elan-f14/window-winder-motor-t25210.html
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