Elan Plus 2

[fitzy1]

I'm in the final throes of rebuilding a 1972 plus 2 and have come to the bit I fear most....paint.
My workshop is a small single garage so not much room.
Would welcome any advice on preparation, I've got one large repair and a number of small holes to fix plus a fair bit of star cracking. Just don't fancy paying 3 grand for a proper job

[LaikaTheDog]

Have painted mine twice, the first time I just rubbed back to the factory undercoat and reapplied cellulose primer/filler and a cellulose lagoon Blue.

within the year it had blistered and bubbled due to porosity/water absorbtion

I repainted this summer a different way to avoid the blistering'cracking and porostiy probs;

rubbed right back to gel coat, repaired and fixed all alignments/problems etc, then applied a new gel coat, as I too have a small garage I wanted to avoid very pungent chemical gels like the standard fibreglass resin, I also wanted a solid surface and had read horror stories involving resins not going 'off'. After much research, (2 yrs) I found a ship builder in cornwall(Uk) who sold me epoxy resin (what they use for carbon fibre). It works differently from other resins as it uses a chemical bond. I actually applied it over my factory gel/raw fibre which had been prepped using 80 grit !

This only works in the summer I found as the room really needs to be about 20 degrees for the chemicals to really bond well. I got myself a space heater to keep the garage at 35 degrees while I applied the gel. Pretty much came out like glass. It is also totally inert, even thinners can't soften it. believe me if you make a mistake you will be cursing....as you sand

the next bit;
Prepped the body using 800 grit wet or dry, then up to a 1000 grit, this should give you a surface that looks like a mirror.
Under EU law it is now getting a little more difficult to get cellulose, you can get it, but I eventually plumped for a total 2pack finish. 2pack is a chemical paint rather than a suspension/flash off paint like cellulose. It also gives a shine out of the gun. apparently...and is used by all modern auto manufacturers

I put on 4 coats of 2pack primer, rubbed back at 1200 grit to give me as good a surface for the final coat as I could get.
I put on 2 coats of my colour and then 4 coats of laquer ( the colour I chose needed laquer)

tools you need;
A proper sized compressor, not a hobby job, you will need one of those barrels on thier side ones, if you are spraying the last thing you need is to wait for the chamber to refill while your paint goes off in the gun and on the car

A proper spray gun (www.krautzberger.com), I got mine from the paint shop, I actually have two, one for the primer, one for the colour...no cross contamination

Whether you use cellulose or 2pack you need a respirator, 2pack is poisonous, so you really really need a respirator and they are not cheap, you will need it for 2pack even if you are working outside. Make sure that if you are suing the same compressor for your respirator as your spray gun that the compressor is not in the spray booth !!!

A clean room , I used my single car garage and wrapped it in plastic to prevent dust falling on the wet paint..remember to leave yourself an easily accesible exit...just in case that respirator falls off mid spray...make sure that when you sand down using wet or dry that you put something under the panel to catch that water as when it dries it creates fine dust..I used newspaper (get rid of it while it is still wet, don't leave a mess for the next day !)

Lots of wet or dry paper

lots and lots and lots of time..thats why they cost 3 grand !

lessons learned;
I would NOT use a paint that needs Laquer, it looks great but is such a pain to get it right
got a BIG compressor after my first time round
I WILL use 2pack again despite the hassle, it really is a far better product to apply and use, it also forgives mistakes !
really needed an extractor of some kind to clear the atmosphere out of my garage after spraying

[fitzy1]

Liaka

Thanks for your suggestions ...don't know that I've got your skills and am still tempted to flat it down to origonal base coat and then apply a cellulose finish with about 6 coats....still very confused !!!
Will keep in touch

[fitzy1]

Steve

Thanks for the e mail I'll look forward to seeing you a week on Sunday.
I will certainly welcome any advice.

fitzy

[david miller]

Laika, I am considering painting my +2 myself - thanks for the info, but tell me - can you not rub back to the gel coat and then prime from there (or is the gel coat, what you call factory primer?). David.

[david miller]

My Chris Harvey Lotus book ( The Elite, Elan...) talks about Enamel Acrylic paint 'of the one-pot air-drying type, as preferred by the professionals [compared to cellulose]'. Is this just an older (non-toxic) version of two-pack and has anybody used this?

Apparently this one-pot stuff gives a 'tough, flexible finish and only needs a thin layer, but takes ages to dry and much longer to harden'. David.

[LaikaTheDog]

When I originally rubbed back to factory basecoat, I ground out all of the cracks and patched them up with fibreglass resin. I also skimmed a little filler (P38) to level off if required, I went around the whole body and spent many many hours making this base layer good for paint.

point of clarification;
the factory base coat is a dark grey( on my 73 +2)
the factory gelcoat is clear, kind opaque greeny glass like, through which you can see the matting.

Prior to my first paint job on the lotus I had always painted metal and learnt a fundamental lesson; when you rub through one layer of paint, you have to rub trough the whole panel. why ? I found that although it all looks good when painted, over time you can start to see the edge between one paint layer and the next. I think this is commonly called sinkage. When painting metal I used a special sealer primer which worked ok, but you can still see the paint 'edge' if you look close.

When I came to painting on fibreglass, the first time round I used the paint sealer, as I had gone through the base coast to the gel in a couple of places, and also all those crack fixes were different surfaces from the orginal basecoat, the paint adhers/bonds in a different way leading to sinkage I guess. I used cellulose and put on 6 or 7 coats. Then on went the cellulose colour. All was good for about 3 or 4 months.....

then,
When washing the car I noticed that on the drivers door I had ridges that looked suspiciously like the fibre matting rising out of teh body...horror
then i noticed, that at some time someone had scratched the bonnet (hood), I had spent along time fixing it and filling etc, but gradually it reappeared....horror
Then I noticed this really orrible looking mess infront of the drivers side windscreen wiper, It had been on the original body, I had diagnosed it as a spillage of hydraulic fluid in the , but it was coming back...horror
Back then the car lived outside under a car cover, for a couple of week I didn't drive it, then I removed thee bag and noticed what looks like acne on the nose of the lotus, apparently this is called osmosis in teh boating world and indicated a poor gel coat....horror

I asked around lots of people and lotus specialists (and boat people) and diagnosed that although I had been careful not to damage my gelcoat, over the years of resprays by a various owners (tawny brown, cardinal red, tawny brown, silver, lagoon blue) someone had probably removed the bascoat and resprayed onto the original gelcoat...a new gelcoat was recommended....horror

to be honest I figured this was the case, I figured that a new gelcoat would once and for all seal the surface, preventing the re-emergence of the above horrors.

So far it has been 4 months since my latest respray over a new gelcoat and apart from a very annoying patch between the headlamp pods, where I obviously only put one new layer of gel (i put about 4 or 5 everywhere else) it looks as good as the day I finished.

I also wanted to do a new gel and this is the last time I am going to do this car ! I didn't want to go through the pain of doing 4 months work for nowt.

[fitzy1]

Sounds like a real nightmare!!!

I'm lucky I think the paint is original on mine ......I'm just starting to take off the paint and will do as you suggest taking it down to the gel coat.

Thanks for the advice

fitzy

[LaikaTheDog]

when taking paint off...hmm...I have done it the dry way with sandpaper..took a long long time, then I cheated and went paint stripper....I think on hindsight this was really the start of my problems with the original gel coat, the chemicals got right into the gel, through what I thought was the basecoat, even though the basecoat didn't peel off, I had to sand it, but I now suspect chemical damage to the lower paint layers. Paint stripper has this annoying habit of making the gel go soggy, so if you are using a spatula to peel off the paint, every so often you 'nick' the gel with the tool. When I rubbed all the way back I found 'nicks' which had been patched under paint that i didn't remove the first time round, i figure that a previous owner probably did a chemical strip years ago (1992 I think) which may have caused the problem.

If you really want to use stripper...cos it will probably save you a month prep time, use a water based one, don't use nitromors cos that stuff eats just about anything, use a cheap one as it will be weaker, and stay with the car while you strip, as soon as it bubbles scrape it off, then wash the surface as soon as you can with clean soap and water to minimise chemicals sinking in. Once you have done the whole body you really want it to sit in a ventilated area, preferably somewhere warm to let any chemicals left behind dry out.

[LaikaTheDog]

Acrylic paint; if you have hammerite where you are, it is an acrylic paint, in the Uk we have hammerite and smoothrite, if you thin out smoothrite with a standard paint thinner and spray it you get a lovely shiny finish, but it is a right pig to apply as it likes to sag and run...sprayed a metro with smoothrite once, looked lovely so i sold it....
acrylic is an air dry paint like cellulose, they work on the principle of a 'flash off' chemical (standard paint thinner) with the colour 'suspended' in it. when the chemical leeches into the atmosphere the colour is left behind on the car.
2-pack is a chemical reaction between two chemicals which makes the paint harden

2-pack is more resistant to sun fade and chemical attack from pollutants...but not impervious to nitromors...

[LaikaTheDog]

downlaod a good spray manual for free from www.carsprays.co.uk

just go to the downloads section and get the pdf

[cdraper]

Has anybody tried to use a hot air gun to remove layers of paint on a Lotus body?`If so do you recommend it or is it a "make work" idea?

[type36lotus]

I would expect it to be as bad for the fiberglass as it is for the paint. But, as I have no experience or knowledge on the subject, just my foolish conjecture.

Mike

[fumes]

I am intereted to read about everyones methods for sorting the painting issues.
My Plus 2 is another in need of a re spray due to osmosis.

I have a marine background and have witnessed many fibreglass boats being treated for osmosis.
One of the most important parts of the preporation is to make sure the fibreglass has been dried before attempting any repair or priming!With boats they will leave uv heat lamps on the treated areas for weeks to get the moisture content down to an acceptable level. It is also worth looking into epoxy primers and fillers which are designed for use in a marine enviroment! Many also give a water tight barrier
Maybe take a trip to a marine paint specialist ,who will have painted many fibreglass boats stuctures etc!
May be worth talking to US Paints who produce a range of epoxy paints(Marineware distribute in UK) or International paints for additional advice!

[LaikaTheDog]

fumes,

I agree, I got my advice and gel from a marine supplier.
Paint stripping with a heat gun will heat the gel coat, you do this you could cause sagging of the Gel, usually associated with over heating in paint spray booths, I kept my bare gel shell indoors and warm for 6 months before starting the spraying. Soft gel can also be a problem with the scraper as you scrape the paint, soft gel will leave lines and scrapes. The only really safe way to remove paint is with sandpaper and time......