Plus 2 side sill member

[dsly1]

Hi all,

My Plus 2 side sill members are rotted out completely.

A/ How do i replace these ? [the car in now upside down being refurbed.

B/ Do I really have to or can i just seal the side skin onto the bottom floor area with reinforced fiberglass and do not replace them. i guess my question is, are they really needed and for what ?

If they are needed for jacking point for wheel changes, i can reinforce other areas in the 4 corners to accomplish this.

I am not attempting a complete ORIGINAL restore, this will be too costly, i am trying to get it close and running before i cannot endure and abandone the project.


Thanks
Shane

[rocket]

They are needed both for safety reasons and also as a jacking point..fit them!

Cheers,

Ian.

[dsly1]

Where do i get a new pair or substitutes and how much do they go for ?


Thanks

[gerrym]

Re sourcing,

SJ Sportscars (Devon) sell nice stainless steel replacements (but driver and passenger seal belt anchorages are a bit lightweight). If you go down this route, you might want to check this aspect of the design.
Spyder Engineering (Peterborough) do galvanised members to their own design, easier to fit.
Paul Maty and the rest provide designs as per original (but galvanised?)

Re reasons for replacement, the whole torsional and beam strength of the body depends on these side members being in place. The body and chassis together provide the unit strength and stiffness. Seat belt anchorages are provided by these sill members. Gordon Lund's book is excellent on this whole subject and copies can normally be found for sale in ebay or from most motoring bookshops.

Lastly, do a search on this forum, there's plenty of advice as to how to fit.

Regards

Gerry

[b-havers]

Take a look at my site; I put out a how-to-do when I fitted new sill members a couple of years ago; http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/sill_replacement.htm .
Also, a few more pictures; http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/20060803.htm

[TeeJay]

This is also my next job.
Having completed the rebuild of the rolling chassis, I have now started on the body.

Anyone got any comments on the parts supplied by PNM Engineering in Merseyside. They have an advert on the inside back cover of Club Lotus News?
PNM manufactured "Galvanised +2 sills (pair) @ ?120.00" and an "Elan+2 sill kit & mounting plates, closing plates & bolt kit @ ?274.50"

Thanks for any comments.
Also thanks to Bjorn for your excellent "how-to-do"

[davidj]

Hi,

Does anyone actually trust the sill jacking points to lift the car? I have never used them, despite having new Spyder units.

David

[b-havers]

Not me.
As shown on my photoes, I use a long wooden block under the corner of the floor.

[Melvinelan]

I've used the original jack on both sides, though the little holes. My trusted mechanic thought I was insane, but it did work. They sills are original, from 1971. The car spent most of its life in Florida, in a carport, so local rust was minimal.

[Stuart+2]

I'm with Melvin - my '68 +2 has the original sills and they're in great nick.
I've got no problem using them as jacking points if I need to, although, in most cases, I need to jack up both wheels at once so go for a floor jack.

[Elanintheforest]

If you feel unsure about jacking the car up using the side member provision, you should also feel very uneasy about driving the car at all, as it's your seat belt anchor point as well!

I can't see that the side members are for safety (apart from the seat belt aspect) as they are only a few inches off the ground. Even a Mini would just ride straight over them. They certainly act to stiffen up the shell, which is a fair bit bigger and more floppy than the 2 seater one. This is why you should only fit new members once the body is bolted onto the chassis (if doing a full retoration) otherwise you could set a twist in the shell if it's not level when doing the job.

Mark

[gerrym]

Tee Jay, re alternative galvanised sills, consider that the Spyder sills are easy to fit and that there's some great feedback on this forum re their installation and application.

You may spend a few pounds more than by buying an unproven alternative, but this will long forgotton once you have them installed and back on the road.

Regards

PS, the jacking points in the sills are designed for tyre changing on the side of the road. Its a bit inconvenient having to get under the car in these cicumstances!!. If the jacking points aren't strong enough for this job, then certainly the security of the seat belt anchor should be a concern. Remember that the MOT status is of no comfort here. Also for the sills to work, both the metal member and the fibreglass should be in good repair. This probably means some glass repairs when fitting new sills. Rust from corroding fasteners can result in considerable local damage to the glass.

[b-havers]

Re seatbelts
It's correct that the lower/outer seat belt anchorage is in the sill member, and it provide an very important anchorage.

But, the upper seat-belt anchorages is thru a ca 10X15 cm plate, fitted on both sides of the fiber in the rear wheel arch.
I bet that in a head-on collision, the weight from the driver will rip this plate off from the fiberglass....
In my Europa, even the bottom seat-belt anchorage is thru the fiberglass, just the same as the uppermost ones on the +2.

This picture shows my old and new upper seatbelt anchorages; not too big to keep you fastened in the seat if a collision occure. I don't feel more secure when driving now, even if I have new achorages both at the bottom (Spyder's sill members) and top (also from Spyder)... :

[davidj]

I agree with b-havers on this one. Obviously the sills need to be changed if rusty, and I have new spyder ones fitted, but in a crash it is the upper mounts which are more likely to fail.

However, I would still question the wisdom of using the sills (even new units) as jacking points! I can see them ripping from the fibreglass under the weight of the engine/gearbox. However I guess Chapman did his calculations so maybe I am worrying about nothing and changing a wheel at the side of the road could be interesting.

On my car there is a circular repair in the drivers footwell, I guess from when one of the previous owners used a trolley jack!

David

[b-havers]

I don't know if this was due to previous jacking on the jacking points, but the fiberglass above the jacking points was badly cracked on my +2;


So, I had to do a GRP job there, as well. Luckily (?) I had years of experience (...) with GRP from the Europa rebuild...


As shown in the pictures, I use a large wooden block between the fibreglass and the jackstands...