Lotus Elan

Spraying questions

PostPost by: Lotus fan » Mon May 07, 2007 5:53 pm

Right here goes.............................
Finally got round to spraying my Plus 2 this weekend..having a go myself instead of farming it out to a professional !!
(I like to do things the hard way :D )
Anyway, a few questions.

I'm using PPG 2 pack paint.
How much of the shell should I be able to spray with 500ml of paint and a 1.8 mm fluid tip ? I used 1 litre of paint to spray the shell with spray filler and thought that 1 litre seems a bit much to use for 1 coat :shock:

When the shell had dried I went back to look at my handywork and found some 'holes' !!! They didn't look that big at all before I sprayed and I thought the spray filler would cover them !! :oops:

Do I :-
A - fill with stopper and repaint as normal
B - fill with 'normal' filler and repaint as normal
C - Grind out and re-fibreglass and filler

Any answers to the above questions will be very much appreciated. :D

Cheers,
Ian.
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front.jpg and
holes.jpg and
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PostPost by: tower of strength » Mon May 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Hi Ian, looks like I'll be going the same way!

after doing the grp repairs, I have also sprayed my car with 2 pack spray filler, nearer 4 litres tho!!, All of the pin holes have been plugged using UPOL TopStop. From what I can gather you'd be better off using a smaller nozzle for the primer coat and the top coat, I struggled with a 1.5mm and the filler.

good luck

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PostPost by: c.d.s. » Tue May 08, 2007 4:39 am

Hello,

You should check with the manufacture of your paint (PPG) for a recommendation on tip, and gun pressure.
The people that sold you the paint will have this information.

Here's a link I found on PPG's site.

http://www.ppgcarpaint.com/pdf/dcc.pdf

Note the details on the bottom of the second page 'Spraygun Set-up'


regards


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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue May 08, 2007 10:38 am

Before flatting the body you need to fill all of the pin holes that you see (bottom photo) with a polyester based putty. 3M and others make a flowable putty in a squeeze tube that is good for that purpose. Use a plastic putty spreader and swipe the putty in two directions 90 degrees to each other to try and force the putty into the pin holes. flat as you would normally after that and reapply another coat of hi build primer. Repeat process as necessary.
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Wed May 09, 2007 8:40 am

I've used about a gallon, maybe more, err 4 liters or so of the 2 pack primer (K36) in my case and am still block sanding, breaking through, filling with a two pack filler with a squeege and sanding some more--this is entire car top and bottom, engine bay as you're doing and all. I bought a gallon of paint (Glassurit 22 Line, urethane acrylic, no clear coat)--have used half on the bottom and engine bay done so far. Figure the rest for the remainder of body (not roof as it is in the silver of the 130) with four coats using 1.4 tip. I used 1.8 tip for high build primer with a pressure pot as well. Final primer/sealer coat before color coats will be a so-called wet-on-wet sealer using K36 with some of the color (2 parts K36, 1 part 201 hardner, 1 part reducer, 1 part color) per technical materials put out by PPG--probably on web site but I got from dealer. Yea, tons of work but not sure you can really pay anybody to do it right. Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: Lotus fan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:18 pm

Sorry for resurecting this old thread but I've finally finished spraying my car !!

It's only taken 27 months :shock:

3 coats of spray filler, 2 coats of primer and 4 coats of yellow.
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IMG_4974.JPG and
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unveling
IMG_4989.JPG and
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PostPost by: TeeJay » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:32 pm

Hi Ian,
Congratulations on your respray project, the results look excellent.
For me I am very interested in your experiences across the 27 months.
Although it is perhaps a little early for me as I still have to strip off the paint and complete any glass matt/tissue repairs. Perhaps some 300 hrs of work.
Also at this point in time, my aim is only to complete the strip, spray filler and prime coats only.

I recently completed (started June 2007) a nuts & bolts restoration of a rolling chassis and have just started on the body.
The body is now on the dolly trolley as shown below. It is completely stripped as per your first photos and awaiting delivery of a sill kit, mounting plates, closing plates etc.

Have you any initial comments on your experience?
Loads of questions to follow.

Trevor
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PostPost by: Lotus fan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:19 pm

I suppose the main thing about spraying a car is DON'T have too many other hobbies !!!!
They take up more tme than you think and I did lose my initial enthusiasm to spray the car.
I.E. Can't do it this weekend because I'm doing so and so, and then the following weekend its too wet and windy !!
Have a plan on what to do when, and stick to it. But don't rush things because thats probably worse than anything !
Any questions you have I will be more than happy to answer (if I can :wink: )

All the best

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PostPost by: TeeJay » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:26 pm

Hi Ian
I am still reading & researching this topic.

No problems with time scales as I am now retired, but I note your point re a project plan. At least, Project Plans are something I do have experience with. :)

At this calendar date we are well into the British summer and the promise of a BBQ one, is well expired. :evil:
So with the many hours that?s required for the stripping and prepping, prior to spraying, it?s now very likely that the application of any paint will wait till next spring. (Consideration to temperatures and humidity)
So, no issues with time scales between coats of spray filler and primer and having read several paint specs, the maximum time between primer and colour.

Onto the questions.

1) I am having problems on the PPG web site to locate your specific PPG 2 pack paint. Would you kindly provide a link?
I have not yet selected a paint system, it may be Nexa Autocolour acrylic urethane, but I am interested in what you selected and the Glassurit 22 Line that Gorden Sauer used.
2) Having used this paint system, would you now use a different one?
3) You obviously sorted out the ?holes? issues re your initial post. Was this a preparation, paint reaction, spray technique problem? Could you please advise how you corrected it?
4) Could you explain why the 27 month timescale?

Thanks for any answers.
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PostPost by: bill308 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:07 pm

TeeJay,

I just want to emphesize one point. If one sands thru the gel coat and gets into the fiberglass matrix, it is likely that small voids, like tiny air bubbles left over from the glass layup, will be exposed. These pin holes tend to be relatively deep such that when primer surfacer is sprayed over them, the resulting surface will not completely fill them. This then leads to significant sanding and follow up coats of primer surfacer and sanding again.

I think it's best to fill these holes prior to applying primer surfacer by either applying a replacement gel coat or a tissue layer followed by a gel coat. After sanding, the primer surfacer/sanding sequence could then be performed.

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PostPost by: TeeJay » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:04 pm

Bill.

Thanks for the warning.
Currently I am carefully removing the paint and when removed will examine very closely the resulting body.
I will no doubt have to do matt and tissue repairs.
I did note that some forum members had put a gel coat on prior to any filler/primer. Now I understand why.

Also I note your comments on the min size of a compressor on the Garage prep for respray, so I need to review my compressor. I am not sure how a Air Receiver Tank is specified, but mine is stated at 50 ltr, but the physical size will hold considerably more than that. Perhaps it's something to do with the volume of compressed air?

I find this subject most interesting and if I still only complete the body up to the primer coat, I will be much better informed to discuss the final coat spraying with the Pro.

Ah well, back to removing the paint
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PostPost by: Lotus fan » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:36 pm

Trevor,

As far as I am aware 2 pack paints were made illegal for the home sprayer at the end of 2006 !!
I bought all my paint from my supplier in Oct 2006.
He has now had to move on to water based paints just like all manufacturers.
I did look into getting the Glasurit 22 line but it was twice the price of the PPG !
The PPG I used for the spray filler and primers was PPG D839 and the colour coats was PPG DG.
Like I said, I am not sure if these paints are available anymore.

The Miles Wilkins books you have read are the same ones that I used.
If you manage to damage the fibreglass then the only way really is to grind the damage and re-tissue and then filler
just as Miles Wilkins recommends.

The holes I encounted were filled with Upol top stop which it a very fine putty filler and then lightly sanded.

As regards the 27 month time scale :- too many other hobbies, poor spraying days (wet, temp), wife having our first child...............etc.....etc.......

If you've got two compressors then you should have no problems, the 24 litre one for the mask and the 50 litre one for the gun.
Enjoy getting all the paint of the car !!!

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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:37 am

In all my fiberglassing, sanding, gelcoating, priming, filling, priming..I still used a putty type filler on some holes--I had a problem on a previous job using lacquer based fillers (no catalyst) and was sure to use only two pack materials throughout my Lotus repaint--the two pack putty filler was Metalglaze (Evercoat brand) and 4 months later no shrinkage exposing poor prep work like I had on the lacquer system job. Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: TeeJay » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:00 am

Ian.
Thanks for your responses.
I am still able to get 2 pack and interesting, also cellulose. Some suppliers find loop holes, but I am sensitive to ?old? stock. It must now be more of a priority for me to select and procure the paint system.

As far as the cost of the paint, with the current choice today, not yet sure which to select, needs to be a compatible, spray within the confines of the home environment and equipment.
I have for many years had the mission to completely restore the +2 to as new as possible, but the paint removal will test my resolve. I must admit already to once thinking to hell with this and shift the task to Options, but the next morning I?m back on song.

I must also sort out if my compressor is up to the task, the supplier says it is, but then perhaps he is biased.
It?s only required for this restoration project.
The compressor was certainly ok on my sandblast cabinet, which I used to prep the suspension parts, but it did work it, cutting in every minute or two.
Think I will do a trail run with the spray gun and measure at the output.

Where are you now with your restoration?

Gordan

Thanks for your input, your comments are noted..

Today I have a day off from paint removal.
I am replacing my old steel oil tank and putting in a plastic replacement to the new OFTEC regulations. So I am building a brick bund to contain any oils spillage.
Last edited by TeeJay on Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:12 pm

Doing some colorsanding to get out some of the orange peel here and there but otherwise really pleased with final result. I set up my garage as noted on the garage thread, big fans, pulling air through from another opening in garage, tarps hanging, temp/humidity just right. Portable gas compressor rated for 14.3 cfm at 40 psi. If you use K36 or equivalent for primer, my four primer coats, after about two heavy build coats (all mostly sanded off) (1.8 tip with pressure pot), were dark pink since I did a "tinted" primer then finally a wet on wet sealer before color--you mix the K36 with catalyst and reducer (on heavy build, no reducer) and then add one part actual paint (so its 2-1-1-1) and then start shooting color within 72 hours so you don't have to sand for bite--I stll did with 600 block to be sure extra smooth. Gordon Sauer
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