new law on rear seat belts

[jeff jackson]

Hi all,
Here in the UK you may be aware that as of Monday 18th September all children under 12 years old or under 135cm ( whichever is sooner) must have a booster seat. This is ok for all the new cars around, but anyone have any idea how it affects us? My 7 year old twin girls love going in the back of the plus 2, but with booster seats?? My son is nearly 9 but over 135 cm so is he still ok in the front?
Grey area all round I think.
Regards
Jeff 72+2

[SimonH]

As far as I can make out if the car never had rear belts than carry on as before, just tell them to sit still!!

If you put a child in the front then you must follow the booster rules, your lad should be fine.

[John Larkin]

When compulsory wearing of seatbelts was proposed in Ireland in the late 1970s the draft legislation included prohibiting passengers under twelve years of age being carried in the front seat. I had a Lotus Elan S3 as well as a ten year old brother whom I used to drive to school sometimes. I wrote to the government minister in charge of the proposed legislation and asked him if I was correct in understanding that it would be illegal for me to continue giving my brother a lift to school in the front passenger seat of my Lotus (i.e. the only passenger seat), but that I would not be breaking the law if I strapped him to the luggage rack on the bootlid instead.

The minister kindly exempted two seater cars from the under-twelves exclusion!

John Larkin

[tdafforn]

What is the definition of Booster seat?
I have the Spyder back seat belt conversion in my +2 and the kids (3 and 5yo) use it all the time..
I wonder whether it would be exempted if you pointed out that Colin chapman designed the +2 for +0 owners who had kids. Therefore the back seats are dedicated kids seats.
Lets face it there is no way a normal adult can sit in them in the conventional way
Cheers
tim

[tower of strength]

surely if the vehicle doesnt have seat belts in the rear, the law can not be applied, as I understand it, its to ensure that the belts when used do not injure the user in the event of an accident, hence the booster seat requirement to ensure the diagonal doesnt get left off or garrote the user!!

Mark

[tdafforn]

But what if the belts you are using are 4 point harnesses as I have in the rear of my +2?
Cheers
tim

[tdafforn]

I have emailed the government department responsible for the law..
We'll see what they say!
Tim

[tdafforn]

have had the reply from the "nanny state"

Dr Dafforn

We have quite a few such enquiries. There are seats which appear to have been designed to carry children; but the question is whether they are type-appoved as child seats. The new rules require children to be in an approved child restraint, so there is a problem with using the seats you describe for children unless they marked as type-approved child seats.

for


Terry Deere
Dept for Transport
Road User Safety Branch 2
zone 2/11
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London SW1P 4DR.
Tel: 020 7944 2046

Have replied asking what sort of approval process there was when our cars where designed.

[lotusanglia1965]

Usual half-hearted government b******s.It seems it's still legal to carry children in the back of a plus two with no seatbelts-crazy world.still by the time I finish our elan+2 rebuild our son will be too tall for the back seat!

[chrishewett]

This is the sort of s**t that has made me decide to move away from the uk.
John Steinbeck said that the law should simply be the written statement of the actions of the majority of the people. This government pass laws that make previously law abiding citizens into criminals overnight. In the uk we just let them do it.
You shouldn't have started me off at this time of night!
Chris

[jeff jackson]

Thanks for the replies all.
I thought that it might be a grey area, and typical of the sort of response I expected from the government. I expect they would not know what an Elan was until it ran them over.......now there's a thought.
PS I'm with you Chris. Can't wait to get to Oz, just need to sort a job and get the elan on a boat...
Regards
Jeff 72 +2

[Tosh]

For what it's worth, my Pagoda has a side facing "kinderseat" in the back, behind the driver.

It has no seat belts fitted. So as I understand it, theoretically, once the nipper turns three or whatever the age is, I can no longer plonk him on that seat, but have to boost him on a loose seat so he sits even further out of the car.

Riiiiight!

[tdafforn]

Had another reply from dept transport.

Thank you for your further e.mail.

While No 3

(3) remove the seat belts from the car (as it wasn't originally designed to have rear belts) and leave my children unrestrained.
)
is an option and it would be legal to carry children aged 3 & over unrestrained in the rear but I guess you would not want to do this if possible. If you can carry your children in the front this may be the solution. Otherwise you may need to speak to a specialist supplier/fitter who may be able to offer you a specially designed booster for those seats. You could try some specialists that we know of-

Recaro UK Ltd based in Honiley, Warwickshire (Tel 0800 7314223) or the InCar Safety Centre (Milton Keynes) -Tel 01908 220909. Alternatively the Road Safety officer at your local authority may know of some more local specialists.

[Tosh]

I think if I was in your shoes (+2 owner). I'd do rear belts and be done with it. If you get stopped, wing it with the nice constable. If he's not nice, pay the ?30 and carry on regardless

The number of Toyota Corrollas I have seen over the past months with kids standing up in the back suggests that attention really should be elsewhere

Oh, and by the way, it's supposed to stop 2000 casualties a year. Note, NOT deaths. As opposed to the speeding, wagons in towns etc...

[lotusanglia1965]

Surely we can't fit a booster seat to a rear seat only big enough for a ten year old.spyder make the rear belt conversion for children,not adults,therefore should be no problem.it doesn't cut across the neck of a ten year old does it?
Drive on.....