Sill Replacement...can The Body Droop?

[berni29]

Hi

Apologies for the frequent posting.

I have just put in a replacement (galvanised spyder) sill having left the body (on the chassis) for a couple of weeks with no sill in (on that side). The bottom of the metal sill protrudes below the fibreglass at the front and back, but not in the middle, where it only just comes down far enough for the holes (when I drill them) to be effective. This suggests to me that the middle has somehow sagged. Is this likely? And if so what should I do?

Also the front and rear plates that I have that attach to the sill from inside the car are not as think as the originals. The seatbelt mounting one is. They flex as you do them up. I am not really sure if this matters.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks

Berni

[flyinggellyfish]

If the door still opens and shuts as before with no large gap at the bottom middle I would say all is OK . The mounting plates for my replacement sills flexed when fitted .

Rick

[Foxie]

Berni,

You have probably found that with the old inner metal sills removed, and the outer fibreglass sill separated from the floor section, there is very little strength in this area, and the outer sill will bulge down. You should be able to carefully jack up the outer sill when drilling for the new (6mm ? ) sill bolts so that the bottom line is parallel along the metal sill and the car doesn't look like a pregnant shark. I was amazed at how flimsy the fibreglass was in the area of the inner plates, I put a few more layers on before installing the plates, placing them over the fresh fibreglass to ensure a flat surface.

Drop me your email address so I can forward photos of the roll bar, I can't attach them to Forum post.

Sean Murray

[berni29]

Hi Sean

I checked the other side which still had the old sill in, and in fact the sill is lower in the centre than at the ends. If I put a straight pole along the bottom of the sill it settles with a gap of over an inch at the front and 1/2" or so at the back.

I'm not sure what to think! My friend up the road has two plus two's so next time I get the cahnce I am going to measure his.

All the best

Berni

[carrierdave]

Hi Berni,
I too have just replaced my inner sills with new spyder sills and the same thing has happened to me. I looked at your web site the other day to see what sort of difference you experienced - Yours certainly appear to protrude far more than mine did.
The other item to consider is how they were originally built ? did the original sills protrude like this? Did lotus leave them or grind them back? It is impossible to tell from the rusty mess laying on your drive.

My doors still close OK and the gap along the bottom of the door is pretty uniform therefore I will be leaving mine; just sealing the gaps with mastic and painting over the galvanised steel with underseal.

Good luck

David
:rolleyes:

[berni29]

Hi Dave

As it happens, there are two other plus 2's up my road, both with replacement sills, so I went a fact finding tour.

What I found was that the curvature of the body sills were all similar. What differed was the height of the vertical flat lip at the bottom of the sills. On my car they are quite shallow. They are also shallow on John's (from this forum) JPS plus 2 judging from the pictures that I have seen. The two cars up the road had really quite deep lips. This meant that the replacements on mine and John's plus 2s protrude below the lip at the front and back, but would probably not have done on these other cars.

I will have to measure them just for interest.

All the best

Berni

[carrierdave]

Hi Berni,
I suspect that there were various finishing tolerances within the bodywork and this is just one of them.
How are you going to finish off the job? Will you cut back the sill to match the glass fiber or will you just paint it and leave it?

All the best

Dave

[berni29]

Hi Dave

I think that I will paint the sill black. I might use some filler to tidy things up, but I am not sure that the rest of the car deserves it! I like the idea of cutting the sill back, but do not want to risk letting rust in. I am not sure if the zinc coating would creep across the cut area or not.

All the best

Berni

[carrierdave]

Hi Berni,
No the galvanised coating would basically be remove by the grinding or cutting process therefore you would need to cover the bare metal with something like Galvafroid - Not sure if thats the correct spelling.

This is termed as cold galvanising and would give you protection from rust for as long as it remains intact.

Be careful is you decide to grind the edge down - it can get rather hot so a little at a time to be safe.

I think I may do the same and grid down the edge, then once painted I will be able to seal across the gap between the floor pan and the outer sill with underseal or a similar material.


David

[berni29]

Hi Dave

For me it would be a marathon grind, so I would probably use a decent hacksaw. I will look up that galvanising paint. When I spoke to Spyder I asked them if I needed to rustproof the sills at all and they said that it was unnecessary, even with holes drilled in for the lower bolts because the galvanising creeps into the bolt holes.

When I was grinding the bolts on the plates in the footwells that hold the sills on I was really worried about fire. Apart from the showers of sparks on the fibreglass there was copious amounts of tinder dry soundproofing felt around. On reflection I was lucky to get away with it.

Berni

[carrierdave]

Hi Berni
The main constituent of galvanising is zinc - this is quite a soft metal and could "creep" as they have stated. When I did my apprentership (many moons ago) we were always told to use galvafroid to cover over any breaks in the galvanising.
The thing is, if you do start to get an electrolitic reaction (rust) the zinc will be the first thing to disappear. If thats all that is protecting the cut edge then it wont last as well as the main surface.

When I put the sills in I fixed them with the internal plates, drilled the holes along the sill. I then un screwed the sill and internal plates and allowed the sills to drop down. I then coated then with Waxol, left them to dry and then pushed them back up into the bodywork and refixed the screws.

I hope this will out last me!!

Dave

PS - I too had to grind off a couple of bolts next to the breather tubes from the petrol tank - Not something to be repeated too often!!

[Lester Burnham]

Hi there

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am wondering if it may be pertinent to a car I am looking at

I have been looking at a white +2s on ebay and am concerned about what I can see as a big "thumbnail" of paint loss at the bottom of the leading edge of each door.

One side could be percieved as accidental, but when I see 2 sides I start to think about the structure and wonder if the body has been allowed to sag, or been improperly lifted at some point (its had a galv chassis at some point)

There is no way I can check this car out before auction end (its in Berkshire), and the current owner has had it less than a year so there is not much comtinuity there. Car looks OK otherwise, previous 2 owners 7 years and 20 plus respectively.

[carrierdave]

Hi Mark,
I have looked on Ebay and I?m not 100% sure of the car you are referring to ? Give me the number.

My suggestion would be to see it before you bid ? Modern day digital photographs are good but when you are going to spend ?4 ? 6,000.00 on a car you need to see it before you part with your cash.

Dave

[Lester Burnham]

Too bloody right Dave!
Wanted to see the Elan today (Item number: 4535382953), guy said he may be around teatime. Thought I might take in Donnington on the way down.

Decided instead to take a look at a BMW 635 (another car considered at the moment) also for sale on Ebay, which was so poor compared to the photos I initially wondered if he had slapped the plates on another car! What looked like a ferrari-esque red shine was as dull and matt as sandpaper with hardly a single panel the same colour.

Anyway, good job I didn't travel the 5 hours down to Berkshire as the Elan guy left a message at home saying he was working all weekend and cancelling all viewings. There are also at least 2 "0" rated bidders bidding the thing up nicely in advance of the real action. I tried to tell him that if people are bidding blind not to be too surprised if they leg it after seeing it.

Tell you a secret, I "won" an Esprit S2 on Ebay last week. I became the infamous "non-paying bidder" when during the post-auction phone call the seller mentioned the structural welding missing from the item description!

Armed with this experience I am losing faith in car buying from Ebay completely. There are so many well informed shysters/traders masquerading as enthusiasts its amazing, all drip feeding the minimum of information to hopefully sell to the uninitiated.

I may wait for the spring "thaw" in the market and just go through the old classifieds where "normal" people sell their cars

[berni29]

Hi Mark

Buying a car off of ebay is like buying it from anywhere else. Dont buy without going to look. Who would buy a car from autotrader or loot? Some sellers of cars lie, and some buyers do not turn up for viewings. Its always been that way.

I have bought and sold bits off of ebay sight unseen, and it just depends who you are dealing with. In the end it comes down to trust and common sense.

Good luck finding the right car.

Berni