New Dashboard - Labels or No Labels?

[ricarbo]

You used to be able to buy a sheet of 'Letraset' rub on lettering in the correct font and size. Don't know about now.
I was doing some redecorating at home. The tin of paint said something like 'all oil based paints eventually yellow. If you want it to stay white use our water based range'.
regards
Richard

[ecamiel]

With all this dashboard replacement don't forget that the dash is also a structural bulkhead and wants to be attached accordingly.

Eric
64 S1 Hart

[elanner]

Phil,

You're right, that does indeed look wrong. Fortunately Gary used better spacing for mine.

Here's the new and old:

Slightly different positioning, but it looks fine.

Regarding the structural nature of the dash, I don't believe that can really be the case for the two bolts at the outside edges. The instrument and glove box holes simply weaken the board too much. So any increase in rigidity must come from the central section and the four top and bottom bolts. I've often wondered whether the side bolts should left slightly loose to allow the weak sides of the dash some room to move (and reduce creaking!).

Nick

[stugilmour]

Radios: Has anybody done the homework on whether or not the RetroSound radios will fit? I cannot find information on their site or their dealer's sites about the depth. If the depth is OK, they make a plethora of different units and different faceplate/knob sets for whatever retro-look you want.

I did look pretty carefully at the RetroSound line, and IIRC came away with a solid maybe on fit. To be fair, I think I had bought a radio already when I was looking, so not definite.

The best place I found to get some dimensional data for their line is on Crutchfield.com; I just checked there on one model (Apache), and they provided the depth of 5.75" in the details tab, but not sure if that is the case for all of the offered models. The buyer comments at Crutchfield tend to rave about their customer service, so pretty sure they would confirm depth of a particular model for you with their online chat feature. Unfortunately Crutchfield.com will not ship to the Great White North, and their Canadian site doesn't offer the same product range. Assuming the 5.75" depth is reflective of the other more suitable models, the Plus 2 fit will be tight, and will require a heater box mod or a faceplate spacer.

In terms of the available depth in the Plus 2, strictly from memory I think it is about 4" to 4.25". Based on advice here, I modified my heater box, and I think I got the depth up to about 5 1/2" to 6", but I was well shy of the typical nominal 7" or greater for a modern DIN head unit. Note the DIN standard does not include a specific depth, so it does become a bit of a crap shoot. The other issue I found was the manufacturer's quoted depth dimensions do not include allowance for all of the RCA connectors on the back of the head unit, and these will hit the heater box. All of that said, others have reported they have got a modern DIN to fit with a heater box mod, so YMMV.

As an aside, anyone doing a dash replacement will want to consider taking the opportunity to remove the heater box and replace the foam on the two internal flaps. Unless this job has already been done the stock foam will be powder by now. This is more of an issue in the Plus 2 than the Elan because the bottom flap blanks off the heater core, and if the seal is compromised the car gets very hot for summer cruising (Plus 2 does not have a stock coolant valve like the Elan). The heater removal is pretty straight forward with the dash out except for the heater core rubber hoses at the lower fire wall; make sure you can gain access to yours prior to getting ready to remove the box. The job is a piece of cake with the engine out....

This thread and web page shows the Secretaudio unit I ended up going with.

http://www.casmfg.com/Secretaudio.htm

lotus-electrical-f38/hidden-ipod-satellite-usb-stereo-radio-controller-system-t24878.html

I haven't looked at these in quite a while, and assume they have a revised model now. As I mentioned in my other review, they are a good radio not a great radio, but mine has worked fine for over five years. The considerably smaller width and height of the dash mounted controller is what I was getting at in terms of getting the new dash made up with either a smaller opening or cutting of the wood blanking plate supplied by the dash manufacturer; I see looking at the CG eBay store they can supply a blanking plate with the dash, which is great.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like CG does a full variety of Plus 2 dashes? I went to their site, and I only saw one configuration listed; it looks like an early four minor gauge car with rat tail switches. I do recall when I ordered my Plus 2 dash from Randy I spent quite a bit of time on the phone making sure I was getting exactly the the right version. I got the impression he had numerous templates, and he was absolutely aware of the various versions. This is not a knock on CG at all; just a suggestion to make sure you button down the details when ordering. The product itself looks very nice. He does mention he is aware of the running changes to the dash, but it is not 100% clear if he offers variants.

The later versions of the CG lettering look good to me.

Sorry for a bit of thread drift. We should probably consider starting a new thread (under the electrical section?) to post more radio details, as if the RetroSound units fit they would be a great product, and having the details in one thread helps a bunch for searching.

HTH

Stu

[saildrive2001]

I re-veneered & finished my dash about 5 years ago. I got the letters from someone in Ireland I believe who had them printed on a transfer system as per the old lettraset system. I finished the dash using an acrylic as this does not have a yellow tint to it. As far as I know all varnishes including urethanes have an amber tint to them. I spent many hours experimenting with mixes of wood stains & then applying different finishes to match as close as I could the sample pieces I had from the original veneer that I removed. The photo clearly shows that the letters are still white after several coats of acrylic were applied after they were put on the dash.
The gearlever boot is not original spec but everything else is original including the radio.

[stugilmour]

Very nicely done Keith. It is inspiring to see such a nice job done by a committed owner.

Keith's pic reminds me of another small detail. My Plus 2 uses the same hinges as Keith has; other years and models might be different. These hinges are unobtanium, so make sure you know where you keep them.

I mailed my hinges to Randy (along with dash photo's to confirm model / variant) prior to the dash being made up, and he mounted the glove box for me. He mentioned at one time he had an extra Lotus hinge set, but someone didn't mail back theirs when they got the new dash. His policy seemed to have changed to no hinges, no dash! He was quite colorful in explaining all this; I sure as heck wouldn't want to be recognized as the dude that made off with them!

Cheers!

Stu

[stugilmour]

With all this dashboard replacement don't forget that the dash is also a structural bulkhead and wants to be attached accordingly.

Eric
64 S1 Hart

That is my understanding as well. The amount of twisting in the Plus 2 when on the track is incredible; on mine the bonnet will pop open if not taped. Still don't see issues on the dash mounting though, but there is a fair amount of stress happening.

I can't say for sure with the other manufacturers, as I only have seen Randy's dash up close. Randy made a pretty big deal on the phone of mentioning that he inlays metal sleeves in each of the bolt holes. This allows the chrome screws to be tightened firmly without denting or cracking the dash finish. The CG pictures show the same sort of sleeves, but the Classic Dashboards from the UK look like they don't have them? My stock dash had similar permanent sleeves.

I placed fiber washers under the screw heads as I think my stock dash used something similar.

Before replacing the dash you will probably want to order new square profile rubber rings for the gauges as the originals are probably pretty cracked and may break or crumble when you disturb them.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2-Square- ... SwEppUUPMu

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-4-Square- ... XQfFJRM1o1

Just curious. Do the back sides CG and / or Classic Dashboards have thin plywood pads to mount the flat switches? These are required with the plywood thickness Randy uses, I suppose they are not 100% required depending on the material that is used. The issue that may occur though is the fit of the glovebox hinges or the vacuum light switch if the material thickness is different. IIRC no big issue with the gauges as there is enough slack in the mounting screws, or the U brackets could be ground to fit.

HTH

Stu

[AdrianSi]

I'll comment on Classic Dashboards fit when I come to install it.

On the subject of glovebox hinges, is anybody reproducing these yet? Mine has some sort of slotted in design with no hinges.

[elanner]

Just curious. Do the back sides CG and / or Classic Dashboards have thin plywood pads to mount the flat switches? These are required with the plywood thickness Randy uses, I suppose they are not 100% required depending on the material that is used.

Yes, my CG dashboard came with hardboard pads on the back to mount the switches on. However my switches, which are original, did not need them. So I removed them. In other words, the depth of the switches matched the depth of the dashboard itself. With the pads in place the switches would have been recessed and not flush with the front of the dash. My original dash didn't have the pads. I didn't have any problems with the headlamp knob or glovebox hinges, but did need to do some shimming to get the cigarette lighter to fit properly.

The CG dash also has metal sleeves bonded into the holes (but my old dash didn't!).

+1 for fibre washers under the bolts.

Gary at CG doesn't ask for the hinges so that he can fit the glove box door. Not a big issue, although it took me a while to fit my door perfectly (measure many times, drill once!). Hinges are so valuable that I got paranoid about posting them anywhere (a dumb concern given the reliability of the US Mail, but old GPO memories fade slowly). And shipping from Connecticut seemed more sensible than shipping from California.

Anyway, I'm very happy with Gary's dashboard. It's an amazing piece of work. I wouldn't be surprised if both his and Randy's are considerably better than the originals.

Nick

[bill308]

I'd like to amplify Eric's comment on the dash being a structural bulkhead even with the dash cutouts. It should be mounted as rigidly as possible for the most benefit. While not as effective as a true, welded hoop bulkhead, it maintains the shape of the dash top molding and ties it to the tunnel molding and frame. The actual magnitude of benefit would be a fairly difficult structural problem requiring a finite element analysis and probably some test data to confirm the analysis. Consider half an empty egg shell. Squeeze the open end and there will be little strength, it will flex and collapse with little effort. Close the open end with even a light weight wall (bulkhead) with holes and there will be a marked increase in the effort required to collapse it. It's the geometry as well as the member's strength that's important.

Bill

[elanner]

Bill,

That's OK - I'm with you and keep my dashboard fully tight in the center and at the sides! And the fact that it creaks a bit in the cold shows that it's absorbing some stresses.

But what do you make of the S1 dashboard, which doesn't cover the entire width of the facia?

Nick

[gearbox]

I just ordered two dashes from Randy at Prestige Autowoods, one for my 1973 Lotus Europa Special, and one for my 1969 Lotus Elan SE. The price was considerably higher than others, but after looking at the various offerings and speaking with Randy at length, I was very impressed with the product, Randy's knowledge of woods and the Lotus requirements, and the customization he offers. Plus I purchased a dash from him about 15 years ago for another Europa I had and it was amazing. Not sure what the others use, but Randy uses a high grade marine plywood and what got me was that he finishes every edge.

And I have to say, the attention to detail that Randy puts into his dashes is truly a cut above IMHO. I sent him my hinges and he would either lathe out the aluminum inserts or use your original pieces. The lettering is dead on and perfectly placed. Some others I had seen where either in the incorrect fonts or crooked which would annoy me to no end, especially being that the dash is the first thing you see getting into the car. Needless to say, any of these new dashes are miles better than the stock dashes Lotus made, but if you want something special you should give Randy a call.

I opted for a Walnut Burl for the Europa and had Randy install a glove box door with a magnetic latch and a radio blanking plate. Pretty much what I had ordered on my last dash and it was the center piece of the car's cockpit.

On the Elan I selected a Fiddleback Koawood and added an additional gauge and a radio blanking plate.

[bill308]

Hi Nick.

Creaks a bit when cold and under load? Makes sense to me. When cold and/or very dry, one would expect the retaining screw loads to relax, because of shrinkage. Keep working the joint and the retention screws will likely get looser and looser. This is a good reason to bush and bond metal inserts into the screw retaining holes. Now you can tighten the screws more and expect them to stay tighter over time.

Gearbox wrote about Prestige Autowoods' use of high grade marine plywood and the care in finishing the edges. Of course marine grade plywood would use a glue with a high water tolerance and sealing the edges would mitigate the absorption of moisture, resulting in little or no swelling due to moisture. Does he use a polyurethane finish to seal everything up?

On the S1 use of a half dash, one wonders if Ron Hickman noticed some relative movement of the dash relative to the body, or squeaks, and whether that encouraged him to move to a full dash on later cars. It could also be esthetics or other practical reasons that drove the change.

What did the 26R's do for a dash? Some photos and cars I've seen, appear to use a very basic metal dash, some covered with padding and vinyl. Light weight and rigid for the expected loads. If I knew I never had to take out the dash to service the electrics, I would opt to screw and bond the dash to the body flange and tunnel bracket. There's a lot of surface area to bond and because of this bond loads will be small and in shear, which is how a bonded joint should be loaded.

Bill

[SENC]

Beautiful, @gearbox. Curly Koa is a favorite of mine!

I'm curious reading this thread why more don't make their own replacement dashes?

[The Veg]

With all the new dashes I read about here, the old ones all that bad? The finish on mine has wrinkled and cracked, but the wood underneath seems good so I may have a go at stripping and re-finishing it.