Elan S2 Chassis - "Now that's not right, is it?"

[UAB807F]

As I'm wasting my time this morning sitting in front of the PC , I'll upload the relevant pages John




Obviously a new chassis is preferred, but these things are welded together by man and can be replaced by man, so no big deal. The steel used is a decent engineering grade but weldable. Note the instructions regarding welding are probably dated by now, personally if I had the option I'd go for TIG welding. But take care, the front crossmember could well have petrol fumes around so make sure you clear it before starting.

Brian

[nigelrbfurness]

Spyder of Peterborough used to recondition Elan chassis that had front end dame by replacing the entire front section from the transmission tunnel forward. I have one of these chassis sitting in my garage, up in the roof (probably the best place for it!) however the point I'm coming to is that the suspension mounting pins for these conversions are not welded to the chassis but fit through a tube that is welded to the crossmember, i.e. they are removable. It might be possible to obtain a replacement pin and tube set from Spyder - thus making that part of the job a bit easier - be worth asking them anyway.

Nigel Furness

[types26/36]

My S3 also has the removable fulcrum pins and is a Spyder reconditioned chassis, when I had my S2 chassis repaired the pins were also made removable.
Lotus made the Europa Special chassis with removable pins although there is no vacuum chamber to worry about, they may still be available although I don't know if they are useable on an Elan chassis.

[ardee_selby]

My S3 also has the removable fulcrum pins and is a Spyder reconditioned chassis, when I had my S2 chassis repaired the pins were also made removable.
Lotus made the Europa Special chassis with removable pins although there is no vacuum chamber to worry about, they may still be available although I don't know if they are useable on an Elan chassis.

Brian,

Interesting....Did Spyder include their wishbones as part of the reconditioning package?

i.e. Does the Spyder fulcrum pin set-up be in recognition that their wishbones are less of a sacrificial item compared to the OEM type?

In any event a removeable pin would seem a good revision for anyone contemplating fulcrum pin replacement.

Cheers - Richard

[types26/36]

Richard,
I only acquired the car a couple of months ago and the chassis was "reconditioned" about ten years ago so I am unsure what the package contained.
It appears to be new wishbones but the "Lotus pressed type" and not the Spyder tubular type, it has a round vacuum chamber, both top and bottom fulcrum pins are the removable type and the towers are "boxed in"

[richboyd]

I'll add a photo of my Spyder chassis (entire chassis is Spyder) showing the welded-in tubes, through which Spyder uses a bolt to replace the "pins" that Lotus originally used. The upper tube is more visible than the lower, but the concept is the same for both. Hope this helps.

While I really like the Spyder tube-and-bolt approach, there is one drawback. The upper pins are surrounded by body work. If you use a long bolt (ala Spyder) instead of original-style pins, you can neither remove nor install that long bolt (nor the arms it holds in place) with the car's body attached. Can you remove/install the original-style lateral links with the body in place? I don't know. But the only way to replace the upper lateral links with a Spyder-like tube-and-bolt would be raise the body or cut an access hole in the fiberglass.

[garyeanderson]

I know $3K is a bunch of unplanned change for most of us. You may want to keep working on the rest of the Elan until you can justify the outlay of that kind of money. I don't know about the rest of the S2 but it used to take a solid year working a couple days and some other part time to redo (restore is something others perform). See what the rest of the expense is in fixing what you have and painting or what ever and think of it again. I have it easy, all of my chassis are junk so that solves that question, I need new. Think of it another way, 10 years ago, you wouldn't get your money back if you sold your S2 Elan when rebuilt, now its worth a bit, I don't want to quote numbers but even in the U.S. $25k is not going to get you the nicest S2.

Here are a couple of pictures of the pins inside the vacuum cross member.

[robertverhey]

Had a feeling this one might pop up.....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/COOKES-HOLE- ... 27bd0c92b6

[bilcoh]

First, thank you all for the contributions. I feel mile ahead of where I was on Friday, and why this forum continues to be such a resource. Special thanks to John's offering and Brian's delivering scans of the replacement process. Makes me think a late model manual should be in my possession as the version updated by 8 years of additional experience at the factory. Thanks also to those who provided photos. P-A's were the ones that finally made it all click for me.

On the Spyder replacements, does the pin simply slide into the sleeve and is located fore/aft by the nuts on either end? I suppose once you've got the sandwich of bushings and crossmember, just make sure the nuts are fully threaded and you're good to go, right?

Update - I pulled out the lower suspension arms and noticed that the rear, which had been mated to the bent pin for lo these many years, had the inner and outer bushing sleeves, well, "not-aligned". The rubber had deformed to somewhat accommodate the bent pin. When I put both lower arms on, the outer gap between them was perfectly sized for the trunnion.

The PO (my Dad) came by today to have a look and we both said "Huh!" We're going to be trying to cold bend the pins back into place, and if this fails, replace the pins. If we need to go the latter route, I'm inclined to go with the replaceable pin route a la Spyder.

I've put Release of Liability waivers in the mail for all of you that replied to this thread. Accept that with all my thanks. I'll let you know the results after check for cracks.

Cheers,

Dave

[UAB807F]

On the Spyder replacements, does the pin simply slide into the sleeve and is located fore/aft by the nuts on either end? I suppose once you've got the sandwich of bushings and crossmember, just make sure the nuts are fully threaded and you're good to go, right?

I have a spyder chassis and yes, as far as I can remember the pins just slide in and you centralise them with the wishbones. (but it is a long time ago !)

After posting yesterday I thought about the repair and wondered if the biggest problem might be in obtaining the conical washer/spacers that weld to the chassis. The pin itself is easy as you know the dimensions and materials, but the cone washers might be a struggle to make ? It might be worth considering a modification to a removable pin as on the Spyder (& Lotus Europa) chassis should you need to replace it.
Brian

[garyeanderson]

There are a couple of other statements in the manual like don't separate the caliper halves and probably others. I have a junk chassis from 36/6292 on the back porch waiting to be cut up and one of the lower pins was noticeably bent. Just to see what was what I grabbed a couple of hammers and addressed the pin. I happened to pickup a 2 pound urethane mallet that I made 34 years ago. This is one of my favorites, virtually indestructible unless it get burned. I in no way plan on ever using this chassis other than maybe for parts. I gave the pin one wrap just to get a feel, it bounced. The first hit was just for information, Kind of like putting from 75 feet from the hole. The next hit was a good solid rap, I looked at the pin and it was straighter so one more hit and it looked good. Just to see what it took to re-bend the pin I gave it another solid wrap and it had the slight bend that it had originally. So yes you can straighten them but will they stay straight. Would a new chassis be any better, I don't know.

p-a

Like I said my, decision is easy. Yours is not, it's a lot of work to fix a chassis and then build up the rest of the Elan around a question!

some Spyder fulcrum pins

[ardee_selby]

snip...I've put Release of Liability waivers in the mail for all of you that replied to this thread. Accept that with all my thanks. I'll let you know the results after check for cracks. Cheers, Dave

Dave,

While you're doing some crack detection....

I hesitate to add fuel to the fire, so to speak, but if "kerbing" has been the cause of the bent pins, potential damage to the front uprights should also be considered. You may have already done so. Apologies if grannies & eggs spring to mind!

These threads, with pictures, are what prompted this post.

elan-plus-f13/rear-suspension-t22123.html?hilit= uprights
elan-f15/crack-testing-uprights-t20576.html

Good Luck. Looking forward to your feedback

Cheers - Richard

[nigelrbfurness]

Slightly off topic, but I see several of you have cars with the Spyder reconditioned chassis - I bought mine very early on when they first being produced. As soon as I got it back from Spyder I took one look at it and thought "I don't think I'll use that...", mainly because the weight and stiffness of the material used in the new section was obviously greater than the original. My thinking was that the Elan's road behaviour is the result of all the parts acting together and I didn't want to lose that dynamic from my cars. Plus I was offered a brand-new, galvanised chassis at a knock-down price!!! I realise sometimes there is a small price to pay for a huge improvement in reliability or robustness, but I guess I'm a purist at heart! So up in the roof it went and it's still there today. So, those have driven cars fitted with this modified chassis, how do they compare? Or are they all now on the list for a replacement galvanised chassis at the earliest opportunity? Sorry for muscling in on the thread.

Nigel Furness