Converting a +2S to Spyder chassis with a Zetec

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hi,

I'm a bit late tuning into this thread.
Some years ago I put a Zetec into an Elan (not a +2).
For me it was the technical challenge that made me do it.
Was I pleased with the result, oh yes.
All of the important original bits except the rusted out chassis have been kept should I one day have a change of heart.
An important consideration is cost, a well rebuilt Twincam + 5 speed box will not be cheap but in comparison to a full blown Spyder conversion will be less & originality will be maintained.
Most Elan fans are looking for originality, something to be considered if your car is not "for life"
On the other hand there are a number of people waiting to snatch my car from my hands.

Cheers
John

[terryp]

Well said Andy , this may be borne out by the two advertised on Pistonheads not being snapped up.

Perhaps the challenge / enjoyment is in the converting and subsequent driving rather than what's best for the car. I suspect that many Zetec owners use the cars very regularly which I beleive is good especially if a wreck of a bodyshell was used which had no heart oops I mean Twincam engine present

[EMA7K]

I have owned a number of Lotus (Loti?) over the years. I had a one owner +2 which had low miles but because it had been laid up for many years the engine needed a re-build. As I (a) don't have the time or (b) the ability to re-build the engine myself this was entrusted to a specialist -cost ~?4000. The result was fine but after 18 months I sold it (fool) and bought an RX8. My Elan Sprint which I have had for 30 years is currently with PM for an engine re-build (upgrade to 145 BHP) -cost, -I will find out this weekend when I pick it up but expect ?5K+. My Zetec which was built in 2007 (and replaced the RX8) has a ?300 secondhand (30,000miles) Zetec in producing 180BHP. Once all the niggles of a home build were sorted out this car is proving to be a reliable daily driver. I check the oil/water once a week but nothing needs adding/changing, its like a +2 on steroids. The handling is better than either my old +2 or the Sprint, the car is smooth and relaxed on the motorway (and being yellow, visible) and fast and nimble on A roads. I cannot see me ever changing it. At the day it will always be a personal choice but if you are like me with little free time I would rather be driving and enjoying my Lotus than underneath it fixing it.

Gareth
Yellow Zetec+2
Green Elan Sprint

[rocket]

I drive my twincam most days including trips to France..i dont spend much,hardly any in fact time beneath it...many people with twincams use them regulary.

Ian.

[Spinney]

I have to say that I don't see the fitting of a Zetec in any way detracts from the fact it is a Lotus. Over the years, Lotus have often used other manufacturers engines in their cars, and still do in fact. My Elise has the Toyota engine for example, but it is still very much a Lotus.

Funnily enough, I visited Classic Team Lotus at Hethel earlier this year and met Colin Chapmans son Clive. I asked him if he thought his father would have approved of the Elise/Exige and the fact they used mass produced engines. He replied that his father would certainly have approved of the technology used in these cars and as for using Rover or Toyota engines, well Colin was always on the lookout for cheap components from other manufacturers parts bins and would only commission his own engine if he deemed there was nothing suitable that was already available.

Maybe the 2 cars on Pistonheads aren't shifting because of the price rather than the fact they are fitted with a Zetec but as I implied earlier, I am not bothered about retaining the monetary value of the car. Rather I would like a +2S that could be used as an everyday car without the worry of breakdowns or rebuild costs.

I think I am beginning to see the way forward for me now.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I have to say that I don't see the fitting of a Zetec in any way detracts from the fact it is a Lotus. Over the years, Lotus have often used other manufacturers engines in their cars, and still do in fact. My Elise has the Toyota engine for example, but it is still very much a Lotus.

Funnily enough, I visited Classic Team Lotus at Hethel earlier this year and met Colin Chapmans son Clive. I asked him if he thought his father would have approved of the Elise/Exige and the fact they used mass produced engines. He replied that his father would certainly have approved of the technology used in these cars and as for using Rover or Toyota engines, well Colin was always on the lookout for cheap components from other manufacturers parts bins and would only commission his own engine if he deemed there was nothing suitable that was already available.

Maybe the 2 cars on Pistonheads aren't shifting because of the price rather than the fact they are fitted with a Zetec but as I implied earlier, I am not bothered about retaining the monetary value of the car. Rather I would like a +2S that could be used as an everyday car without the worry of breakdowns or rebuild costs.

I think I am beginning to see the way forward for me now.

I also feel that the Twincam was born out of necessity, an expense & risk that "the man" could well have done without.
Coventry Climax's prices for the Elite engines were a thorn in his side & he had good contacts within the Ford organisation for the bits he needed to build the engine he needed & could find nowhere else within budget.
John

[terryp]

DON'T DO IT
I just thought it was worth one last try

[robcall]

I'm just astounded that some people want to rip the guts out of an
excellent 40 year old classic car.
No matter how much money you throw at it-it'll never feel like a modern.
Look at the majority of the postings on this site-they're about the history/rebuild/maintenance/repair of these cars.
All part of the joys of classic ownership!

I've said my bit and feel better for it!

[Spinney]

I know it will never feel like a modern car and, to be honest, I wouldn't want it to. The differences between the +2 and Elise are like chalk and cheese in character and I don't see a Zetec engine and Ford 5 sp gearbox changing that in any way. I respect the view that the car shouldn't be tampered with and in all other respects I want to maintain originality where possible but I'm beginning to see the Spyder conversion as an enhancement of the original rather than molesting it.

I'm sure ACBC would have approved. At least, that's what I'm telling myself!

[john.p.clegg]

If ACBC was still building the Plus 2s now and he could get the Zetec engines from ford cheap enough,they'd be in there now...

John

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

If ACBC was still building the Plus 2s now and he could get the Zetec engines from ford cheap enough,they'd be in there now...

John

That's what I told myself when I "did the deed", but let's be fair that's not going to stand up in Court is it
John

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I know it will never feel like a modern car and, to be honest, I wouldn't want it to. The differences between the +2 and Elise are like chalk and cheese in character and I don't see a Zetec engine and Ford 5 sp gearbox changing that in any way. I respect the view that the car shouldn't be tampered with and in all other respects I want to maintain originality where possible but I'm beginning to see the Spyder conversion as an enhancement of the original rather than molesting it.

I'm sure ACBC would have approved. At least, that's what I'm telling myself!

Before you take the plunge please take in to account where the majority of daily Elan problems stem from.
Neither the engine or gearbox.
Most of the posts here are about electrical gremlins, suspension, brakes, instrumentation, you name it.
A big Zetec will make the car go (I know) but everything else needs beefing up to stop the car from falling apart at the seams.
Having done all that is necessary, you'll still have the problems with the headlights not going up or down, the same for the windows etc. etc.
On the other hand the Zetec will not change the car's handling, so long as the roads are dry!!
Weight distribution in mine is 50:50 but with all of that additional torque it's a handful in the wet.
That's where the fun goes out of it

Cheers
John

[terryp]

But the plus 2 is not being produced now.. ......It was last produced 35 years ago

If it were possible would you really put a Zetec in a 1960 Lotus Elite because you wanted to drive it on the road everyday.
Similarly would you put one in Ford V8 Pilot to enable trouble free motoring whist driving to work.
I think the answer to the above 2 scenarios is No, then why would anyone want to do the same to a plus 2

My first car was a Ford 100E with a sidevalve engine , I dreamed about being able to put a 1500cc Anglia engine in it , but I kept it as it was and bought a Ginetta G15 to use for work. (Very Practical!)

What I'm trying to say is a Lotus Elan +2 has a Lotus Twincam Engine in it, anything else and it becomes a "Custom Car" just like the Zephyrs and Zodiacs with a V8 and Jaguar IRS. Surely if the car doesn't do the job that you want it to do then you have to look at another car?
I feel better now
Terry

[M.J.S]

Please do not forget the idea behind the conversion is a classic car with a modern engine.

The Zetec is not a modern engine. It is already dated and was not a great engine in its day. The Duratech is far superior but one day even that wll be replaced.

It is a vicious circle, but any modern upgrade is desirable only when it is modern. You would have to rebuild the car on a regular basis as technology changes.

In the future a Zetec engined Elan may be looked upon as we would view a Pinto or Essex engined car. Any for sale would be advertised honestly as 'classic 60's car upgraded with out of date 1990's engine and box'.

Not so good eh? Look at the lowly value of a CVH engined Morgan compared to the other units used at the time. Or closer to home; Europa with Renault engine or Lotus engine? That answers itself.

Leave it as it should be. If it's too slow fit injection and electronics, upgrade to a 1700cc tall block with a worked head and cams, but don't steal its heart. A fully restored Zetec conversion is a Lotus shell with a few interior mouldings, and nothing else. It does its job but the soul has gone.

In Tahiti they would call that a Zombie.

Mark S.

[Spinney]

Oddly enough, I started my motoring with a 100E Prefect, then moved on to an Anglia which ended up with a 1650 engine, before moving on to a Mk 1 Lotus Cortina. Oh how I wish I had kept that car when I see the prices now!

Anyhow no, I wouldn't consider changing anything on an Elite but then again, I wouldn't want to drive one every day either. I can see this is a very emotive issue for you but I promise I will carry out the conversion sympathetically. As for the other potential issues regarding electrics and vacuum operated headlamps etc, for me that will be all part of the fun in getting the car fully sorted over time.

I love to build cars and having had 2 Caterhams which I built and then duly upgraded to very high specs and several rebuilds later, I really need another challenge. As I have always loved the +2, it just seemed right for me to choose this as a base and improve on the known weaknesses and, while I'm at it, upgrade the engine and drivetrain. I am at the time of life where I am no longer bothered about turning it into a car that will hold, or improve, it's value. Rather I just want the kind of car that I can have some fun with and I guess this would do it for me really.

Having said all that, I do still like the good old Twin Cam. I just think it can be improved upon.