A few pics from our play with a Spyder

[thor]

Bet this discussion has been up a lot here on the forum.
I'm of a mixed opinion myself. I feel blessed to have a fairly new galvanised spyder spaceframe, wishbones and sills, with spax fitted, for peace of mind.
But I'm equally happy to keep 4 donuts on the back along with the Twin Cam, as my 99 Golf is perfect, this car just doesn't need to be. If it breaks down a bit than so be it.., I want to keep the spirit

[chrishewett]

No but you need your own forum.
Chris

[simon.mitchell]

Our own forum? But how are we then going to know if the 'purists' approve of our cars? Perhaps we'd sleep more soundly if someone with 1960's air in their tyres could provide a list of what mods are 'acceptable' (everything bar the engine?).

Yeah, keep to the spirit - after all Chapman would be horrified if he thought that some people were modifying his cars to make them go quicker and handle better!

All good fun though - back to the 'purists'?

[chrishewett]

I see your point. I just think how much of a Lotus do you need in your car to still call it a Lotus? Of course the answer will always be a personal opinion. I have two bits on my car that are Spyder and I also have non standard driveshafts so I am not a purist. Apart from cosmetics the Spyder car doesn't seem to be much Lotus. Maybe I am just jealous, I should have my car back on the road tomorrow!
Chris

[Hamish Coutts]

Mmmm,

Have to agree with Chris on this one. A Zetech +2 is just that. Not a lotus because there's not much left of the original car. Just the body really. The original concept has really been diluted.

If that's the only way to keep what would have been a basket case on the road, then fine. Otherwise I'd keep a Lotus a Lotus. i.e. as many original parts as possible Is it not the spirit of the thing after all?

Of course improve/get better, Chapman/Clark & co would have championed that. But should it be called a Lotus? A Zetech +2 uses so many major parts not designed by Lotus, should it not be called a spyder ford +2 S175 or some such name? (BTW I don't consider a steering rack or a front hub upright a major part).

Acceptable accessories for a "real" +2? I'd say anything that was available when the car was in production e.g. a Motolita Leather rim steering wheel or a particular set of cams or Cibie headlights. That could even stretch to a set of furry dice (perish the thought) if they were available in the 70's. What I mean is acceptable on a historical basis not a taste basis. Anybody seen a pink metaflake Elan?

BTW - I have a spyder chassis, front wishbones and a Motolita wheel, also a couple of LED lights (replacing the festoon bulbs in the boot - I have flattened my battery once!). But because everything else is original, especially engine, gearbox and internal trim and other gubbins that give the car its soul, I still consider my car to be a Lotus.

Regards,

Hamish.

[Hamish Coutts]

Oh,

... oops, I forgot to add - and back to the Spyder men!!

Hamish.

[cliveyboy]

I wonder if in the 1940s etc if this same conversation was going about modifying a car such as putting a custom built racing body onto your Aston Martin chassis.
I am just looking at Classic & Sports cars calendar for August a beautiful Zagato Coupe body on a Jaguar XK140 chassis.
(Now lets see, google search:- Zagato, Jaguar, kit car forum)

Cliveyboy

[hatman]

I agree that to call such mongrels 'Lotus' is a bit of a vee sign to the Trade Descriptions Act but 'Spyder Ford +2 S175'? Hardly trips off the tongue, does it? How about calling them 'Dilutus'?

[v7slr]

I honestly can't understand why people care. Is it because you purists think by having a faster, better handling, more economical and "sorted" version of your car on the road in some way denigrates your own "original"?

The DVLA has decreed that the VIN number belongs to the body. Therefore it's a Lotus while the body still exists to everyone except those of you here who seem to have an agenda.

Personally I couldn't care either way. I got fed up with this kind of rubbish in the Se7ens world and removed all my "Caterham" brands from my car. It was just my car and I didn't care what anyone else thought of it.

[steveb1]

Funny world.
People with a Lotus what to put a Cortina engine in it and people with a Cortina want to pot a Lotus engine in it.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hi,
I've been watching this thread for a few days now and was wondering when the flaming would start.
It always happens when someone mentions Zetec. If some people want to put these engines in their Lotus it's their decision IMHO.
Doing the job is not that simple and there has been lots of useful advice on the subject in the past.
For that reason, I suggested, a short while ago, that a Zetec Forum might be a good idea.
A further advantage would be that the purists would then not have their sensibilities confronted with the the subject unless they choose to log onto that Forum.

I'll get my coat!

The weather here is great here at the moment, my S4 is going to get a good blast this evening.

[v7slr]

Hope the "flaming" comment wasn't aimed at me, and I apologise if that's how I came across. I'm not trying to start a fight. Perhaps my requirement for a particular car differs from that which this forum intended, in which case I better go and find a forum which better fits. The Zetec forum sounds like a good idea but I think what I've got planned for the car differs so massively from even that, that a forum for "me only" would be a lonely place.

[Hamish Coutts]

Me too,

There was no intent to flame. I thought we were having an active discussion (like a legal arguement).

If guys want to put a different engine in a +2 then that's OK. God knows; where would we be without experiment and design. (probably still trying to work out how to get a limpet out of a shell - vultures figured that out 1,000s of years ago)
This is a facinating discussion I would love to have with you guys round the fire on a rainy, cold winters evening over a large dram or 2 (or 12!).

There is no malice or agression intended. I, like everybody else, was just expressing an opinion. There is no need for any kind of agression. My expression of vehicle name was a poor attempt at humour, please take it as that.

I am very interested in new stuff. (that's where the next improvement is coming from).

Please have your own forum to focus on what you are doing but let us in to communicate and see what what you guys are doing. You never know we just might be very interested!!

Regards,

Hamish.

PS - OK, I might be a purist but that stems for my regard for Jim Clark (I regard Lotus as a tribute to his attitude and spirit [that's not his religeous spirit by the way]). However, I do not treat a Zetech as anything but a tribute to him either. I just would loved to have seen him drive it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrishewett]

I could start to get a bit fed up with being called a purist, not because there is anything wrong with being one but because I have already explained that I am not one.
All I have said is that I think to be a Lotus a car needs a majority of parts in common with the original. The Zetec obviously has not. I even went to spyder and talked with Andy about them and considered the possibility of buying one. I repeat I have nothing against the car or people who buy them. However this is a Lotus forum not a Spyder engineering forum.
Can I be allowed my opinion without being ranted against?
Chris

[simon.mitchell]

Maybe we should start a new thread, call it 'I can't see the point of the Zetec', and we could all sound off there to our hearts content. I'm not against having the argument, but lets do it and move on. I'd like to be able to discuss the cars themselves (Isn't that what we're all here for?)without people feeling that they have to tell the world that they don't like the concept or sniffing that it's 'not a real Lotus' every time someone mentions the 'Z' word (stand up Hatman - 'mongrel??? Bah! Or did you mean 'Dilotus' because it's twice as good?!!).

Rant over - In the spirit of reconcilliation - a 'Zetec forum' gets my vote.

btw - nothing personal against anyone here, but having spent 18 months building the bloody thing I want to feel free to write about it!