1972 Sprint colour schemes

[garyeanderson]

John

What colour is your gearbox, I have a nice 50's Ford green engine colour at the moment, its a cross between turquoise and green, looks similar to the colour that Makita uses on all there power tool boxes. The squirrels love it, I thinks it looks rather smart too.

Gary

[petervs]

Hi all. I was unable to post with a quote.
1964 S1, yes the chassis is original and in excellent condition. It was stripped and powder coated when the car was restored 6000 miles ago. I payed mid 30k for the car.
Rohan, thanks for the welcome, as you say, Colin and I should be able to source most things but will certainly take up your offer of assistance if needed.
Cheers Peter

[ngs]

Hi Peter.

Congratulations on snaring the car.
It sounds great.
Perhaps you could post some pictures after you?ve made the cosmetic changes.

I seem to have inadvertently provided some amusement by suggesting the resale value of the car would have been a little higher if it had been restored in an original colour scheme. Of course, that?s just a personal opinion. No sermons from me.

Cheers, Nigel

[worzel]

Hi all

My apologies if I've offended anybody with my views on "originality".

Kidding aside- does originality really matter- I agree that some mods might be thought tasteless but as far as I know very few cars are ever built without the input of the "bean counters" as the americans would say. You could argue therefore that a competent owner etc could engineeer out inherent faults without destroying the original concept. There are many areas on elans less than 100% satisfactory- during the 29 years I've owned mine (is it really that long) I've altered lots but I don't think I've changed it into something else. I changed colour from the original orange/white to a Toyota red simply because I liked the effect and I thought the chosen colour was slightly preferable to the stock sprint colours- but it's only my opinion.

I've never bothered altering the basic mechanical spec because I don't have any problems with it-but I have switched to 5 speed because it makes it more useable and I've upgraded electrics/cooling etc to what it probably should have been when new. It still looks like the car Lotus made and still runs the same way- but better. If improvements are real improvements do them. If they're not- why bother?

John

[1964 S1]

I'm with you John, but originality does matter.
When it comes to collectable value an original whatever the heck it is, is "always" worth more than anything that has been modified. Making something better or more practical doesn't make it more valuable.

[garyeanderson]

Hi Eric
If an Elan is original, I think it matters too to some extent. But all of my Elan's came in a semi loose basket (some bits may have fallen out over time) and to put things back to the way it left the factory (if you could figure out the spec) would be near impossible. I think most people with Elan's will agree that there are certain allowable mods that don't hurt and some that help. A new chassis never hurt the value, conversely I would offer considerably less for an original chassis. You can not always tell the condition of the vacuum tank/front crossmember by looking at them, they rot from the inside too. Starters and charging system upgrades are for the most part reversible if desired. Original paint/color, I don't think this adds much unless its red.
With VW bugs fetching more than an Elan on any given day, I reality can't see being compulsive about originality. Elans were offered from the factory at a fairly attractive price for the performance when new so a lot of folks bought them that could not afford the upkeep/maintenance and sold them on to the next owner who continued to drive them into the ground.

I bought my Elan's because I like them and like to drive them, resale is not the prime motivator to me. I have yet to see a nicely restored or original Elan S1 - Sprint bring much more than $20k to $22k. On the other hand basket case/restorable original Elans fetch up to $10k U.S. which will take another 15 to 20k to make right. The sad truth is, a non-running Elan seems to be worth more in parts (search on ridgeliven on ebay) at the moment. I sure hope that changes, its too much work to part them out.

All of this is My opinion and may not be worth the time it took to write.

Gary E. Anderson

[1964 S1]

Wait a minute Gary!
You're on the east coast, your opinion better be worth the time to express it or we're all in trouble. Us middle country bumpkins are following you east coast folks (+ maybe a couple of people in California) for guidance in cultural and other matters that matter.
I'm just saying the most valuable, ie; highest priced cars are equipped as original. A bone stock totally original collector car is worth more than a totally restored stock vehicle in the same condition. I cannot think of any mods that add to resale value, until we start talking about race cars.
I agree about the starter, generator comments, not sure about the red paint.
As far as the original chassis debate; I'll swim upstream here and say an original chassis in excellent condition adds more to an original car price than any replacement unit could hope to and if a car still has one it proves how well taken care of the car was/is and never wrecked.
I also bought my Elans to drive them, I could hardly care less what they're worth, they're not for sale, (even tho' I'm in the car biz) and their forty year old chassis are fine.
I have seen Sprints do 28 to 32 K. Restored. Properly. I have no idea if they had original chassis.
In the end I think driveability determines 50% of the price, 50% is condition, and that extra 25%, originality.
Eric

[gjz30075]

Eric, as a midwesterner myself, I totally agree.

[garyeanderson]

Hi Eric
The vacuum tank of the chassis has external air sucked in when you turn the lights off and let the headlamp pods drop which has some amount of moisture content (depending where you live). The original chassis has some red oxide (early) and later on had a black bituminous mixture sprayed on the outside. If you have ever seen the inside of the vacuum tank there is no protection at all inside and it will start to rust when it suck it its first bit of wet atmosphere. Depending on where you live, Houston would be a bad place in the summer and Phoenix a good place Have you seen the Spyder frame with a cap screwed into a bung? this is not only to drain fuel vapor condensation. You can still buy new ungalvanized chassis for Elan's from Miles Wilkins, they will have the LRxxxx on them but they do look the part. I would never pay premium for an Elan with the original chassis even if it looks sound, you just cant tell the condition of the front crossmember. At nearly $3000 for the chassis landed into the U.S. and then some 40 plus hours of work to change it gets expensive. The chassis is just another replacable part, not like an air filter but it does have a service life depending on where it spent it early youth. Maybe some folk will start advertising the elans "never driven at night".

Values have been pretty stable over the last 15 years, they have gone up but not as fast as other colectables, with inflation they are actually losing value. With the 11 Elans I have bought over the years I have one chassis (driven for 4 years 1966 to 1969) that I think may (???) be good enough to reuse, the rest were trash. Of course I buy all of the Junks that I find and they were driven until they wern't fit for the road so I am a little biased.

Gary E. Anderson

[1964 S1]

Ok, I'm gonna rap on my tanks with a small hammer and a small wood shim, all the way around. I'll report back. S1 chassis, aged 43 years. +2 chassis aged 38, I predict solid and safe, but then again I'm the guy that said rust never sleeps.

[pereirac]

Nigel,
Did you say that the red Elan has an original chassis or a replacement one? The condition of the chassis is probably more important than the colour of the car (assuming the bodywork is in good condition).

One thing about fibreglass cars is that the chassis can be totally rotten and the car still look great from the outside. I went to see a Sprint a few years ago which had suffered "minor damage" and from the outside it looked like a small tear in the fibreglass at the rear. From underneath, the petrol tank was pushed in and the rear suspension on one side ripped off. The vendor tried to convince me that there was a little surface damage which would be easy to fix and that the rear suspension bracket could easily be welded back on!