Opinion On This Paint Condition Please!

[berni29]

Hello All

I am in the process of restoring my Plus 2 and am starting to get really worried about the body. I have posted pictures of the paintwork. Please click on the link below to take a look. The thumbnails open up into bigger pictures. I do not mind grinding out the big cracks a bit, but there are tens of thousands of small ones!

<a href='http://www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus/paintwork.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus/paintwork.htm</a>

I hoping that many of you have seen this sort of thing before and can give me a prognosis. I would like to just rub the car down, fix the obvious faults, and paint the car with an ultra flexible modern wonder primer and paint!

Many thanks

Berni

[bvt]

My opinion.. based on a few things.....
Strip all the paint off.. i use sharp chisels
Grind down the cracks well down into the glass over a wide area.
build up with matt and resin...
then sand down the surface checking for any unseen cracks.. similar treatment if found
Then I tissue the whole shell
followed by getting the local paint shop to bake the shell to remove moisture and harden the matt/resin further

Then... get some Crystic coat from Strand and get that applied

it can then be prepped and painted like any car.

[1964 S1]

"Restoration" would have to include stripping the paint from the body and proper repair of stress cracks in the body from the rear damage. Is the trunk lid original? I think the cracks coming from the rear window corner are from crash damage. I have a Burnt Sand 1969 S4 (resprayed in the original, the color I think your +2 is) when it moved from California (moderate climate) to Ohio (-20 F climate) I literally could see cracks appear in the repaint. (overnight while sleeping) Attempting to paint over the original and or repaint leads to cracking in the new paint no matter how flexible it may be. The expansion and contraction of the fiberglass, followed by the primer and then factory coat will be different than the next coat, crack, and all, crack, subsequent coats of paint....

[berni29]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

So it looks like I had better learn how to fix cracks in fiberglass then. I have never done it before and it sounds really bad! ?Grind down the cracks well down into the glass over a wide area build up with matt and resin...? scares the hell out of me. Sounds just about doable in hidden areas, but on the surface of the bodywork?

Has anyone seen a tutorial online with pictures or know of a really good book on the subject? Do I need to worry about the very fine hairline cracks that seem to be all over the roof, and many other parts of the car?

The boot is not original. They say that moving home is one of life?s most stressful experiences. How about waking up the next morning to your repaint dying well! I will be removing all the original paint. A good amount has made its way off the car under its own power already.

Some parts of the car are very flexible indeed such as the area that stretches between the rear wings above the boot and below the rear screen. Is it worth trying to reinforce there? Also the roof is pretty thin and flexes very easily.

One further question, if one of the factors in cracking paint is the expansion and contraction of the fiberglass, and the differences in the expansion rates of the primer and paint, why does the whole car not craze regardless of preparation? I wonder if it is possible to match the primer and topcoat expansion coefficients.

Thanks again

Berni

[type36lotus]

Hi Berni,

My S3 coupe' had some pretty significant cracks in the fiberglass. Like you I was apprehensive (read: really scared I was going to screw the whole car up) about the grinding out the deep ones and tissue matting just about the entire car to fix the little crazings. So I compromised and just did the deep ones and counted on the use of epoxy primer to fix the crazing (which it did NOT). The deep repairs came out perfect, contouring took a little time, but was worth it. I now wish I had also added the tissue route for the rest of the car. So my advice is take the extra time, and it will be significant, to do it right. Most certainly the cost in time and money will be greater if you need to re-do your work. I put a ton of effort into my Elan's body. It looked perfect under primer, but the crazing came through in no time.

Regretting not going the complete route,
Mike Geiger

[nebogipfel]

Hi Berni

Your shell looks like it has had a fairly hard life

Although some cracking is probably caused by extremes of temperature I think more are due to traffic dings and heavy handed owners over the years slamming doors and boot lids and of course sitting on bonnets and boots.

We Lotus owners always say "weight for weight fiberglass is stronger than steel" Which is true but it would need to be a great deal thicker

Miles Wilkins in his book on fiberglass repair advocates that deep cracks, splits and fractures should be ground out and relaminated properly with new layers of matting prior to surfacing and finishing.

The lighter surface crazing and stars which are usually confined to the gelcoat should be lightly ground and covered with surfacing tissue (fine matting) prior to lightly filling and finishing.

He also advocates the use of polyester spray filler (basically body filler which can be sprayed from a gravity fed gun) over the repairs to finally finish the surface prior to whatever paint system you intend to use.

A word of advice, avoid rubbing fillers (including spray filler) wet, it will soak up water like a sponge and eventually lovely blisters will form in your nice new paint

Although some of the advice in his book is somewhat dated (in the edition I own) I think the general principles are sound and I intend to follow this system on my own car.

It is worth saying that giving everything time to dry and cure properly is especially important on fiberglass. Solvents will evaporate from the surface but if too much is put on too quickly they will also migrate down into any defects in the surface and show up as sinkage and shrink marks. Don't think of drying times in hours but in days or even better a week or two!

No magic paints on the market. You're gonna have to repair the cracks properly

[LaikaTheDog]

Now that is a body 'prime for restoration'

I have done mine twice now, the first time i skimped, the second time I re-gelled the entire body. I go with the other peeps above and would rub right back grind out those orrible cracks and relaminate them, then go over the ENTIRE body, even the pods, with a new gel/tissue, trust me, if you don't it will go back to the way it is now within two years...
it is painful enough once, i recommend that twice is enough for one lifetime. It really is no wonder that 'pro' body shops either won't do them or charge between 3 or ?5k.

not to put you off or anything, doing it yourself you get the finish you want at the price you want !

[1964 S1]

Hi Berni,

Maybe Lotus can supply some information concerning proper paints, my tan Elan has blue primer, is not a total respray and it's only crazing/cracking where it was painted over the original.
Your comment about flexible body is a bit disconcerting. I have a 69 +2 and feel confident I could sit on the rear wings without flexing. I can really bounce the car if its been sitting for a while as the rear shocks go soft, and pushing down on the wings as hard as I can induces no flexing of the body, it's very strong there. (could be the four different color layers of paint strengthening everything). I would look everywhere underneath for more cracks, does it make noise as it flexes? What is the patch on the bottom, near rear seat? Good luck, Eric

[berni29]

Thank you again for your replies, and apologies for the delay in responding.

I can hear the terrible truth ringing in your stories! I will do mine as well as I can. I like learning new things, so fibreglass fixing will be just fine! I will clear the photography and car magazines out of the loo, and get hold of some fibreglass manuals instead. I have dremel tool in the garage, so I will be digging that out to do some crack chasing as well.

The bit that is really flexible is the ledge that runs between the rear wings and under the rear screen, not the wings themselves.

Thanks again

Berni

[type36lotus]

Beware the Dremel. You do not want deep narrow grooves, but wide shallow areas. I would expect the sanding disk might be ok, but not the rotary bits or the sanding drum. You need area to layout the fiberglass. Others please agree/disagree at will.

[steveww]

I can understand wanting to restore rather than replace but..... I know I can get a new shell for my baby elan not sure about +2? Why not just buy a new shell and spray that up?

[berni29]

Hi

Right, OK, the Dremel will stay put. I had visions of myself engraving all over the car. I will start reading up on fiberglass real soon!

I do not think that new plus 2 shells are available. Also I have a very tight budget for the car, and not because I want it to be, believe me!

I am getting some special "will not damage fiberglass" (oh yeh right) paint stripper today. I am going to use it on the bonnet, boot and doors because I can rinse them properly. Not sure about the body yet. The paint is falling off that already and the rest will prob scrape or sand off. Might try a hot air gun to soften the difficult bits. I know that I will have to be really careful though.

And there I was thinking that I would be bored this summer.......

Happy motoring

Berni

[steveww]

You might find this useful

<a href='http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fillpoke/glass1.htm' target='_blank'>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fillpoke/glass1.htm</a>

[nebogipfel]

I agree don't use the Dremel! You need to grind the whole area over, not just trace the cracks. The idea is to resurface over the cracked area so that the cracks are gone once and for all..............hopefully

Be careful with the stripper. If you can, stop before the last layer and sand the last bit off. It will help prevent the stripper damaging the laminate and water getting in when you wash it off. Make sure it is thoroughly dry before you start your repairs.

You can certainly add extra layers of fiberglass under thin or flexible areas to add more strength. Another technique used by laminators is to laminate over a former an inch or so in diameter and thus create what amounts to a stiffening tube in the laminate. This sort of thing running across your shell between the rear turrets would probably help.

If you can find a copy of Miles Wilkins book on "How to restore Fiberglass Bodywork" (ISBN 0-85045-556-1) it will give you lots of good pointers. I suspect it will have been out of print for quite a while?

[asc]

I have resprayed my Elan a couple of times, in my opinion its best to work as dry as possible, I fairlysure GRP absorbs moisture as well as some primers. Best result, used orbital sander (second hand fell off wrist watch!) and 2 pack paint in a heated spray booth, lasted years longer than cellulose.It is possible that the level of 2 pack used isnt legal anymore - it did give off cyanide gas, paint sdprayer wore breathing apparatus. Cheers Tony