Lotus Elan

Thimble lights to LED daytime running lights

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:07 pm

Maybe someone can en"lighten" me on how the sidelights are wired(switched).

My original Federal S4 came with the sidelights holes blanked off. The indicator lamps (turn signals) were wired to work as parking lights as well as turn signals (dual filament). The indicator, in park function, is controlled by a toggle switch (on/off) next to the headlamp vacuum switch. The way these were wired is that the indicators (park function) can be switched on and off when the headlights are off but are powered on, regardless of toggle position, when the headlamps are up/on. The directional function goes independently through the stalk as normal.

I am considering putting the sidelights into the blank holes on my S4 body but wondering how I should wire/switch these.

1. Just gang them with the existing indicators (park/running wire(red)). So the sidelights and the indicators will be both on together (when headlights up or when switched on separately)
2. From looking at a wiring diagram (though there are many versions) it appears that for non-Federal cars (at least compared to my 69 S4), that the indicator lights are only used for turn signals and the sidelights are used independently as parking or running lights. So the "indicators" only light when activated by the turn signal? Is that correct? I could rewire to that operation but its probably not legal here in California.

So, I am left either just having the added sidelights act the same as the indicators (except for the flashing turn signal aspect) or if I separate the sidelights and indicators need to come up with a different way of switching the sidelights. I noticed that in tedtaylor's first picture of his LED conversion that the sidelights are on but the indicators are not. As this is a US (but later car, I believe) how are the lights switched? Later picture shows both sidelights and indicators on but without headlights. So, a bit confusing. Tedtaylor: do you have separate switching for the sidelights and indicators (perhaps a 3 position toggle) or ?

Thanks
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
1owner69Elan
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 899
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: Napa, California

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:44 pm

Did a bit of research on US (and California regs). California regs simply say follow whatever the Feds say.

As Daylight Running Lights (DRL) there are Fed rules that are discussed here:

https://jalopnik.com/heres-why-modern-c ... 1792394567

The "twist" for the Elan is the proximity of the sidelights to the turn signals(indicators). In order to comply with the regs when the two lights are less than 100mm apart:

Either:

1. Make the DRL much dimmer relative to the indicator (which is where we started out, if you had sidelights to begin with)
or
2. Turn the DRL off (on that side) while signaling. Kind of a weird solution but many cars have this.

The intent is not to confuse or obscure the turn signal function.

However, I would judge the likelihood of being pulled over for this as highly unlikely. But, maybe a liability if an accident occurred. We live (USA) in a highly litigious environment. Also, insurance companies always looking for a way not to pay.

Probably not that hard to comply with #2 through use of a relay(s) triggered by the turn signals.

Anyway, I have purchased new sidelights (as well as the LED replacements) and intend to install them probably with the #2 implementation (another little challenge, maybe overkill). I figure I need all the help I can get to be seen during the day. Besides the horn and quick reflexes, some DRL's could be helpful. Driving the Elan after 15 years I was quickly reminded on how other drivers just do not see you.
'69 Elan S4 SE
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
1owner69Elan
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 899
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: Napa, California

PostPost by: tedtaylor » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:36 am

couple notes:
1) I've run these thimble LED lights now for several hours at a time. I have felt the clear lens and chrome ring and felt no noticeable heat, so there's no fear of melting plastic.
2) I don't know the wattage or current draw (I'm not technically adept with that sort of stuff)
3) the wiring/mounting/switching of the thimble lights for "federal" cars is an individual choice. My previous original owner had them wired separately on its own accessory switch mounted under the dash lip (along side the accessory switch for the cooling fan operation). I run them all by themselves as daytime running lights. They work independently of any parking lights or headlights.

To each his own. FYI only.
TED (original poster of this thread)
TED
"Driving a Lotus is a triumph of bravery over intelligence." Stirling Moss
"TaylorMadeClassicCars" on WWW and Facebook
tedtaylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 688
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Smyrna, Delaware, USA

PostPost by: crypto » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:28 am

Here in Switzerland, driving with daylights is a must (as it is in some other European countries).
The only exception is if the car was registered before 1.1.1970. My Elan is not and I have to drive with the main lights on (low beam). The tiny sidelights do not fulfill the today's ECE regulation regarding size, position and brightness (even not with LEDs). These LED lights are a great idea but leaves you in a grey zone with the law :wink: With today's efficiency of LEDs there is about a factor 8 in power consumption compared to a regular bulb. An additional gain is achieved by the directional nature of LEDs compared to the nearly omnidirectional light emission of bulbs. In other words a 1 Watt LED is about equal to an 8 Watt bulb.
Some attachment details:
tmp_6199-img_20170903_12102166401905.jpg and
The really good drivers have the bugs on the side windows (cit. Walter R?hrl)
User avatar
crypto
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 105
Joined: 20 Apr 2014
Location: Switzerland

PostPost by: chrisbeck » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:29 am

I can recommend replacement LED lamps (bulbs) from Classic Car LED's, http://www.classiccarleds.co.uk. Top quality, overnight free delivery, excellent service. My sidelight lenses were melted from the heat of the incandescent lamps. I replaced all the rears, indicators and cockpit lamps with LED's, red for the stop/tails, amber for the indicators and warm white for the cockpit.
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
1990 Morgan +8
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
chrisbeck
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Aug 2010

PostPost by: holywood3645 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:25 pm

Chris, would you please share the item number of each bulb you ended up using and the OEM?
thanks
User avatar
holywood3645
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: 07 Oct 2003

PostPost by: chrisbeck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:05 pm

Sorry, I've just seen this request on the forum. Do you want the LED list? The OEM numbers are in the Lotus workshop manual.
Chris
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
1990 Morgan +8
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
chrisbeck
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Aug 2010

PostPost by: holywood3645 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:23 am

If you could copy the page on the manual and write the LED number next to them, I will put the info on a spread sheet and list them on the board. Also, maybe some LED supplier info you used would be useful and can be update for the people in various parts of the world.
I think all board readers would be grateful.

Thanks
James
User avatar
holywood3645
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1075
Joined: 07 Oct 2003

PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 pm

I decided to try and make bulbs out of Ted's LED units rather than modify the original (or new) sockets and it wasn’t easy with my big hands, but I can supply dimensions and advice if anyone wants. There are differences between +ve and –ve earth ones though a slightly less bright universal version is possible.

LED pair 196_8575.JPG and
Sidelamps bulb 196_8567.JPG and
Sidelamps LED 196_8568.JPG and
Meg

26/4088 1965 S1½ Old and scruffy but in perfect working order; the car too.
________________Put your money where your mouse is, click on "Support LotusElan.net" below.
User avatar
Quart Meg Miles
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Location: Barnham, W Sussex, UK

PostPost by: TBG » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:23 am

I have gone 100% LED throughout the car. Amazing difference from interior light to brakes and all that............This chap has them all and is endlessly helpful. D

https://www.bettercarlighting.co.uk/ind ... t&catId=48

20200823_181533_001.jpg and
TBG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Location: Somerset, England

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:15 pm

But, do you have a LED ignition warning light?

John ;-)
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5754
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: TBG » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:41 pm

Blast your eyes Sir!! :roll:

I will go and have a look..............
TBG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Location: Somerset, England

PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:23 pm

Led handbrake warning light would be good! Save driving around unaware that it is on, or if your handbrake happens to work, save wearing the pads out (again)! ;-)
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine!
Bigbaldybloke
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 763
Joined: 16 May 2017
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:03 pm

Bigbaldybloke wrote:Led handbrake warning light would be good! Save driving around unaware that it is on, or if your handbrake happens to work, save wearing the pads out (again)! ;-)

When mine's on the car doesn't move, I don't need a light.
Meg

26/4088 1965 S1½ Old and scruffy but in perfect working order; the car too.
________________Put your money where your mouse is, click on "Support LotusElan.net" below.
User avatar
Quart Meg Miles
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Location: Barnham, W Sussex, UK

PostPost by: billwill » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:00 am

TBG wrote:Blast your eyes Sir!! :roll:

I will go and have a look..............



:D He's having you on, LED bulbs don't pass enough current for the initial current needed by an alternator startup and are often one-way current, not two-way., So a LED bulb as the alternator charging indicator will probably stop your charging circuit from working. :lol:
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4824
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest