Lotus Elan

Donor 6 speed gearbox possibility?

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:02 pm

There is a 6 speed RWD gearbox fitted to Ford Transit vans manufactured for Ford by Gertrag and called the MT82, there appear to be variations on this gearbox with different types of remote operation (cable or rod change). It looks similar to the MT75 5 speed box and I'm wondering on the possibilities for using it in an Elan.

Unfortunately, like a lot of modern gearboxes the bellhousing is integral and I'm pretty sure that the pattern is to suit the Ford Duratec / Mazda engine, which is fine for me and my S4, but a bit of a problem for Lotus twincams or zetecs.

I'm struggling to get any detailed information on these gearboxes such as dimensions and details of the gear lever positions or remotes. There is an advert on ebay selling the gearbox as a conversion to upgrade a 5 speed Transit van to 6 speed and includes all the necessary bits, like gearlever, linkage, clutch, flywheel, front of propshaft. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TRANSIT-2007-2012-5-SPEED-GEAR-BOX-CONVERSION-TO-6-SPEED-GEAR-BOX-FULL-KIT-/130704484877?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item1e6e982a0d

The Neil Myers 6 speed gearbox is reportedley based on a 6 speed Miata/MX5 box. It's all a bit secret as to how he achieves changing the bellhousing and moving the gearlever position to suit a Lotus twincam, but it must be a much harder job than converting what looks to be a more compact unit such as the MT82.

mt82.jpg and


6 speed MX5.jpg
6 speed MX5.jpg (52.43 KiB) Viewed 7373 times
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PostPost by: bigvalvehead » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi Guys
I have modified the gearshift position on a Honda S2000 gearbox with a view to fitting the complete drivetrain including diff. (already done by insane +2 guy)

However it is easy to alter the gearstick position by cutting the shaft after removing the housing and taking out the tube as shown.
The stick ends up virtually identical to the Elan's original position.

ratios as follows
The S2000 ratios according to Car&Driver come out like this:

mph/ mph mph
gear ratio FD 1000 @5500 @8800

1 3.13 4.1 4.8 26 42
2 2.05 4.1 7.3 40 64
3 1.48 4.1 10.1 56 89
4 1.16 4.1 12.9 71 114
5 0.97 4.1 15.5 85 136
6 0.81 4.1 18.5 102 163

The 4.1 final drive is not ideal as only full race twincams rev to 85000 like the Vtec.
but the ratios are pretty close to cater for the power band of the Honda engine
Cheers
Dave
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004.JPG and
002 (2).JPG and
056s.jpg and
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PostPost by: JJDraper » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:16 pm

re the NM 6 speed conversion, no great secret, but a lot of development. The bellhousing is mated to the twincam block with a custom conversion plate, and the gear lever is moved to a new location as per the pics. This entails some modification of the gearbox housing, hence the costs. The pics are of a development car, and things continue to improve. The NM workshop is small scale, which is why the market is not flooded with Mazda 6sp conversions.. but there is a steady trickle of conversions and a queue. Sourcing and converting suitable boxes is underway.

I don't have one (yet), but have tried the conversion which is slick and outwardly invisible.

Jeremy
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PostPost by: msd1107 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:00 am

Why use the S2000 differential ratio?

With a 3.77 differential, the .97 5th gear gives 3% higher speed than the four speed, and you have a 6th OD which would be adequate for all but the most highly modified FHC. The 3.55 would be even better.

This box in 1st-5th is slightly wider than our standard four speed but with the advantage of five well staged ratios and with the advantage of OD 6th.

Anybody have an idea as to the weight of this box compared with the four speed?

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PostPost by: kyokushin keith » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:24 pm

I tried to get one of the Myers gearboxes ,the reports were goodbut they stopped manufactering them they were using the MX5 as a doner box.

I,mm now waiting for an Alan Voight Box , anybody with one ,howes it going.!
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PostPost by: bigvalvehead » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Hi David
I'll weigh the spare S2000 box I have when I am back in the workshop on Monday.

Cheers
Dave
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PostPost by: stevebroad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:55 pm

Or you could stop faffing about and fit a 6 speed sequential :-)

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PostPost by: msd1107 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:59 pm

Ohh, look at that. What is it?

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PostPost by: stevebroad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:19 pm

Elite IL300 6 speed sequential.
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PostPost by: ianthomson72 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:58 am

Re:- honda S2000 gearbox

I understood that these boxes had in internal reduction gear which lowered all the ratios by 1.26. If this is the case then 6th gear would end up being almost 1:1 Coupled with the S2000 diff and full height radial tyres you get 16.28 miles per hour per thousand rpm in top. Using 6800 as max revs would give a top speed of 110mph, hardly ideal

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PostPost by: worzel » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:29 pm

Hi

Maybe I shouldn't post this -just yet- as it's not installed but I'm convinced my route would be simpler using a MCT75 box since I don't have to alter the chassis or body or get involved with different flywheels/ring gear/clutches/sandwich plates etc. Ok, the ratios on the first two gears might not be ideal on this box but we'll see how they pan out on the road. I'm not into drag starts so I suspect I'll probably not be too bothered.

Admittedly MCT boxes aren't exactly numerous but then again they're not impossible to find and the internals are pure MT75 (so readily available) and they should be tough enough in use. Since I only need two items to complete the bits needed I reckon on getting my hands dirty next April and I'll definitely report on what happens then.

Regards

John
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:25 am

worzel wrote:Hi

Maybe I shouldn't post this -just yet- as it's not installed but I'm convinced my route would be simpler using a MCT75 box since I don't have to alter the chassis or body or get involved with different flywheels/ring gear/clutches/sandwich plates etc. Ok, the ratios on the first two gears might not be ideal on this box but we'll see how they pan out on the road. I'm not into drag starts so I suspect I'll probably not be too bothered.

Admittedly MCT boxes aren't exactly numerous but then again they're not impossible to find and the internals are pure MT75 (so readily available) and they should be tough enough in use. Since I only need two items to complete the bits needed I reckon on getting my hands dirty next April and I'll definitely report on what happens then.

Regards

John


John,
I have an MCT75 on the S4 Supersprint, I can beat most cars from the lights minus a few lunatic Caterhams. The linkage is a little balky between 1st and second, but it frees up when it beds in. 1st to 4th is close ratio with a very tall 5th on my box, I was informed that Mitchell Cotts change the standard ratios to this format. Only problem is it doesn't have 6th gear, but 6 gears only looks good on a sales brochure. driving home 160 miles last night from the NEC I cruised at 70 - 80 mph (genuine as according to satnav) between 2500 and 3000 rpm, perfect....
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PostPost by: kstrutt11 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:06 pm

Ref the mt 82,it is also used in the mustang, but it is a bit of a monster I doubt there is any way it will fit in lotus chassis. Also the 1st gear is designed for dragging 7 tons around and would probably be next to useless in the elan as well.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:54 am

kstrutt11 wrote:Ref the mt 82,it is also used in the mustang, but it is a bit of a monster I doubt there is any way it will fit in lotus chassis. Also the 1st gear is designed for dragging 7 tons around and would probably be next to useless in the elan as well.


A good point, and reading through some of the other forums regarding cars that use this box it isn't highly rated, so I have discounted it for now. The 6 speed BMW ZF boxes look interesting, quite compact and with very simple linkage, I'm thinking of my next project now.

bmw ZF 6 speed.jpg and
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