Elan Sprint 123 Bluetooth Distributor for Weber engine

[h20hamelan]

Took the Lotus out.
So the question is does the new Distributor technology improve on the old?

Hope to hear more comments. Friend with XKE loves it, also for the security.

[Peter +2]

Spurned on by this post I too have acquired a 123 Bluetooth distributor and about fit. I have not decided on coil yet, but does any know why 123 appear to recommend a 3ohm coil?

Peter

I've been using a red Bosch "performance" coil (1.8 Ohms, supposedly 33000V spark - no ballast) since installation 5-6 years ago, no issue so far (I understand if you go below 1.8 Ohm you may pullm too much current and risk damaging the circuit)

Thanks I will stick with the 3 ohm one for now.

Needless to say my install has not gone to plan so giving up for the night and will resume tomorrow. I plan to use the Escort curve but would like to check I have understood the install instructions correctly. In order to set the 123 dizzy in the correct position using the green light, should the engine be positioned at TDC or 12 BTDC?

Thanks in advance.

Peter

[nmauduit]

[In order to set the 123 dizzy in the correct position using the green light, should the engine be positioned at TDC or 12 BTDC?

I prefer to set it to zero TDC , so that the programmed curved is the actual ignition curve (but you also could set it 12 btdc of whatever and deduce that from your programmed curve to the same effect)

[Peter +2]

That’s great. I thought TDC would be fine so will stick with that. The main thing is I can now rule this out as a reason for the no start. I will have another go tomorrow and hopefully the engine will start.
I installed a 123 on my old Mercedes a few years back and the car started on the first turn of the key. I wish things were like that when I mess with the Plus 2.

[Peter +2]

Dizzy was 180degrees + a spline or two out. All running fine using the Escort curve for the time being.

Thanks for the help and info.

Peter

[TeeJay]

Peter, good to hear that you are sorted.

I also found the Escort Curve to be more suitable to date, but I am also sure that when my engine is run in, it will be possible to increase the advance above the 26 degrees at 2400RPM it’s currently set at. Note this being for a Road car.

[davidj]

Good morning all,

I am in need of a distributor for my newly rebuilt engine ( if you have read another recent post of mine you will understand why) The engine will not be used for competition so cannot justify the cost of a 123 unit, but still wish to get something which is correct for the car. I have discovered Ignition car parts in the UK

https://www.ignitioncarparts.co.uk/Cont ... ntact%20Us

who will build a new electronic distributor, complete with cap, mapped to any advance you wish for under £100. I realise the whole topic of advance curves is a minefield, and even respected books like the Miles WIlkins bible have incorrect data, while other distributors sold for the twin cam engine are just wrong. Consequently I am considering sending Ignition Car Parts "2cams" advance curve, which looks to work well, and asking them to build me a distributor.

Is anything wrong with this strategy. It seams too obvious (and cheap!)

Thanks in advance for any comments.

David

[Andy8421]

A distributor is a pretty basic thing, a handful of moving parts, and that's about it. There are sellers on eBay offering 23D4 clones with electronic ignition module for less than £90.

Having said that, you want a distributor with a known repeatable advance curve, innards that fit well so you don't get ignition scatter as they wobble about, a rotor arm and distributor cap that don't short out when they got hot and an ignition module that won't leave you by the side of the road.

I learnt my lesson the hard way after a sequence of failures, and following advice I received from posters here on lotuselan.net, started using the 'Distributor Doctor'. Great service, and good quality, reliable parts.

Ignitioncarparts may well be the same, but I would want to get a few testimonies from satisfied customers before I risked it.

[nwbaxter66]

Many thanks to TeeJay and 2cams70 for their help in getting my 123 distributor up and running.
Quite a torrid time getting the car to start, but after some incredibly patient assistance from Ed Madak the US distributor, we got it running. I have no idea why I made such a dog’s breakfast of a relatively simple project.

Have the folks who have installed the distributor opted to add vacuum advance ? I didn’t have it on the old Petronius set up, but its not too tough to pull vacuum, so I was wondering if it was worth the trouble.

I am looking forward to doing some seat of the pants tuning now the weather has cleaned up in the Midwest. I am currently running the TC Escort base curve as proposed by 2cams and TeeJay, but I think that with a 1720 AX long block, there should be some room for improvement over time.

Interested in any suggestions.

Thanks

Nick

[mbell]

Will be interested in your thoughts after you've had some time with it, considering upgrading my petronixs to one but can't quite bite the bullet.

For vacuum advance it depends on how well the 123 can avanage the vacuum level. The signal from a single inlet is very pulsey and could cause miss readings. I'd probably hook it up and use the app to see what readings it was seeing.

If it very variable then you might be able to add restrictions and maybe extra volume to the line to smooth it out some.

[Noigardo]

Being new to the forum and the owner of a Seven S4 with the TC1600 Big Valve, Dellortos KN double filters now fitted with 123ig bt distributor, I am on the lookout for a decent advance curve and a way to utilize the second MAP feature of the 123ig. I discovered this blog and read that mmauduit has found a way to use the vakuum advancing input to a throttle position input. But I cant seem to find details anywhere. Can someone point me in the right direction? Yesterday after fitting the new 123ig I went for a few rides to test out various curves as described in the M Wilkins book, but very quickly it became clear, that the engine response and torque would benefit from far more agressive timing than the standard curves described in the book. I may try to fit a vacuum tube directly to the KN-filter backplate and see if the signal is usable, but I would prefer a throttle position signal to the vacuum signal if possible.

[nmauduit]

Hello Noigardo,

I would think that in first approximation the vacuum signal would be mostly useful to improve fuel economy in the cruising region - I briefly looked into that then dropped it for now, I felt I don't cruise enough to find the motivation to fiddle with it some more in order to save maybe 1l/100km ... so rather spent the time fine tuning the higher end of the curve, including with the help of a rolling road.

As for general timing curves to get started, for a stock engine I would consider 32-34° max total advance as indicated in a previous post, you may use the timing function to optimize to a point if you find a suitable straight road to do some pulls back to back (please note it is equally important that richness is well set at all rpm and during transitions, I found the help lf a wideband lambda sensor of great help to tune on the road)

Good luck !

[Noigardo]

Hi nmauduit

Thanks a lot for your useful response. I am aware that MAP usage is down to fuel consumption at cruising speed, but it is worth improving, especially when the need of running at low- medium load is an issue. I realized the inlet manifold features a screw in each inlet pipe for cyl 1 and 4, so I figure to connect the two to a moderately sized plenum and connect 123ig via a suitable orifice to further dampen the vacuum pulses. Anyway you are right, fuel consumption should NEVER be prioritized to optimized torque in any situation! Transport stretches with lots of stop and go traffic is a killer, and sucking in the unburned hydrocarbons from my side mounted exhaust is not very healthy, so.....

A problem for me is, that I am not quite sure of the state of tune of my engine. Surely compression is 1:10 -1:11 as measured, and I am quite sure the cams are D-type, but much more I cant say. The Dellortos seems to be standard equipped.

Yesterdays quick spins revealed no pinging at all from idling speed up to 6500rpm at full throttle, but at every increase of the advance it seemed to react more crisp, also toward the high end rpm. Next I will test the advance curve as suggested "Forum Member after Dyno" earlier in the post, see enclosed. I am good at detecting pinging, so I am not too worried for the safety of the engine (running 95 octane std fuel), but there is normally also limits to how far one can go with advanced ignition before torque start to decrease, even before knocking occurs.

I have yet to test with my Innovate LM2 analyzer/logger, but will definitely get to the task ASAP as you suggest. I have the LM2 set up for my Porsche 911 with MFI fuel injection, logging lambda, rpm and throttle position, and I figure I could relative easily fit it to the Lotus. Which values would you aim at for various speed/throttle positions?

I noticed that you were adjusting the distributor at 0dgr as to make adjustment absolute advance, which is practical, but more interesting I found that you consider it to be a way of making the engine turn over more easily, when engaging the starter. That is a feature which is worth exploring as the original starter / battery combination surely does seem to have a hard time starting. Especially in the situation, where the engine has been at standstill for weeks, requiring quite a few revolutions to fill up the Dellortos!

[Andy8421]

I just wanted to update this thread. Encouraged by Holden's sale, I purchased a 123 tune+ (the bluetooth version) for my restoration (thanks to whoever pointed Holden's sale out). It arrived yesterday. My rationale for going down this route was that my old distributor is clapped out, so I needed to either have it rebuilt or obtain a new one. I liked the idea of a programmable low-scatter advance curve, which seemed far less hit and miss than having a box full of tiny springs to fiddle with and messing with the centrifugal advance of the standard distributor. The feature that really sold me however was the PIN security, so the car could be immobilised just by using a phone. Better than a switch in the glovebox. Unless the bad guys had a spare distributor, it wasn't going anywhere (though I guess is doesn't stop the car being towed).

I haven't fitted it yet, but first impressions are very good. Build quality and machining detail are excellent, and the cap and clips (there are some negative comments on here about earlier versions having poor cap fitting) must have been redesigned, as they appear excellent quality and fit very well.

I connected it to a battery, and having downloaded the app, bluetooth connectivity was easy. I fiddled around with the settings, uploaded a curve from this thread for fun, and it all seemed pretty straightforward.

The only complaint was the instructions in the box were for the USB model, not the bluetooth version. I downloaded the correct instructions from their web page.

I will include a review of the distributor in my on again / off again restoration thread. I have finally re-roofed my garage, and got my old Perkins diesel generator running again in time for the threatened winter power cuts, so no excuses now for not getting back to the Elan.

[nmauduit]

I noticed that you were adjusting the distributor at 0dgr as to make adjustment absolute advance, which is practical, but more interesting I found that you consider it to be a way of making the engine turn over more easily, when engaging the starter. That is a feature which is worth exploring as the original starter / battery combination surely does seem to have a hard time starting. Especially in the situation, where the engine has been at standstill for weeks, requiring quite a few revolutions to fill up the Dellortos!

Hello Noigardo,

sorry for the belated reply, I just happened to see your question as it floated up thank's to a new post...

My attempt at easing cranking over and idling when cold was encouraged by my replacement of the battery by a small LiPo battery, which allows only a few minutes of cranking. I have not made a lot of back to back tests to quantify that, but I get the impression that very low advance while cranking helps to start on the first bang (my car cranks quite slow after long periods of rest, and I don't have a battery trickle charger in the storage, only what's left in the small battery). Also, I have fitted an electric pump which helps filling the weber bowls before cranking.
Likewise, stabilizing the idle around 1000 rpm was an attempt to keep idle high enough so that the bangs do not push dead on the rods so as to save the bearings (otherwise when not careful during warm up the engine would idle down to 500 or so, and with a mechanical dizzy the advance would still be the same there as at twice the rpm, so half the flame front propagation time)... not sure precisely how much that helps (running the car only when properly warmed up is certainly more critical).
These little tweaks are quite easy with an electronic map such as offered by the 123 dizzy, I tried and left them as is. I must admit there was a third tweak I started to implement but left unfinished, which is gas saving in the mid throttle range (I added a TPS and retrofitted the signal to the vaccuum input of the 123 to modify advance in some throttle cases, but never got around to take the time and test that adequately to actually measure the fuel economy).