Spyder +2 zetec owners on elan.net?

[gordy7]

Hi Nick, of Youtube fame?

I'm in Thetford Norfolk

[Vixensteveplus2]

+2 ST170 engine bay

I agree it would be good to have a list of Spyder/Zetec +2 owners as it does feel like reinventing the wheel sometimes. Since my last post my car was finished (well almost) but now is a daily driver since September.
Regular journeys between Bristol, Ascot and Cambridge and RAC not needed yet!
However I did go over a high kerb which caught the rollbar mounting on the damper, tore off the rollbar but bungees held it on till I got home.
Contrary to Spyders advice I fitted a ST170 engine. If anyone needs info on the Omex 710/throttle bodies setup to deal with the VVT then I'm happy to help. Seems that this Zetec produces a good amount of torque from low down to 6k without having to tune it up any further. Feels fast enough to me!
By the way the +2 had a Crossflow in when I bought it, so had lost its Twincam decades ago.

[berni29]

Hi There

I'm going to revive this thread seeing as I have decided to do a Zetec, having started one 15 years ago and then changing my mind. So far I have a rebuilt type 9 gearbox with the 3.36 (I think it is) 1st gear ratio from a V6, GXSR 600 ITB's, ST170 inlet manifold and built up old style Spyder chassis (that will need modifying). It has solid driveshafts and a custom propshaft.

I'm looking for a blacktop Zetec at the moment, and are still surprised that none of the Zetecs on here have used the standard ECU and MAF (and other required sensors). To me its a no brainer, but I guess I will be finding out at some stage why no-one else has done this.

I will post updates as I get properly underway.

Berni

[Spyder fan]

Hi Berni,
Good to hear that you are building a +2 with Zetec. I have had mine since 2008, it was converted by Spyder and was fitted with Jenvey throttle bodies and Emerald ECU, it’s a straightforward off the shelf system that works well and releases the maximum power available depending on the state of tune of the engine. A standard 2:0 will produce around 160bhp using this method, next stage is cams and a bit of porting for around 180bhp and then it’s big money to go further with pistons, rods and other work, but 220bhp is achievable.

The standard injection and ECU isn’t really an option as there are issues with the plenum being higher than the cam cover, so no chance getting that into a +2 engine bay which is already tight for clearance of the cam cover. The Ford ECU relies on other systems being present, not easy to use effectively let alone reprogram. This article is worth reading and explains it better than I can https://toyne.org.uk/zetec-induction.html

A lower cost alternative to throttle body and ECU injection is to use carburettors, Weber 45DCOE work well and you should get close to the bhp figures for injection although fuel economy won’t be as good. Another route is to use motorbike carburettors, I’m pretty sure that Mike Duff on here has gone down that route with good success, bike carbs give good economy and power, they look pretty cool as well here’s an example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Zetec-E ... ect=mobile

[berni29]

Hi Alan

Thank you for your message, On the induction side my intention is to use an ST170 lower intake (basically a simple manifold with tubes) with GXSR 600 throttle bodies suitably spaced (I have a new set already) and then an airbox (either a modified standard one or aftermarket), with the standard MAF. This along with the standard ECU injectors & the other sensors, including the lambada should work well in my opinion.

The standard ECU is highly sophisticated and can adapt quite a bit. I guess I will find out by how much. I can also utilise the standard PATS security system.

All the best

Berni

[Spyder fan]

Hi Berni,
I really must learn to read peoples posts properly

I see now that you mentioned you have some throttle bodies and a manifold ready to go. If you can get the standard ECU to work you will be saving a packet, I just checked on Emerald's site and see the ECU and wiring harness = £1062.00 inc vat !!

Megasquirt would be another option starting at £462.00 inc VAT or a bit cheaper if you are handy with a soldering iron and can assemble it yourself £330.00 inc vat http://www.megasquirtuk.co.uk/

Let us know progress when you get to it.

[gordy7]

I haven't posted for a while and as I've just spotted this on my laptop I thought I post.

Hopefully I've uploaded the file properly as I haven't posted photographs before.

[berni29]

+2 engine bay .jpg

Contrary to Spyders advice I fitted a ST170 engine. If anyone needs info on the Omex 710/throttle bodies setup to deal with the VVT then I'm happy to help. Seems that this Zetec produces a good amount of torque from low down to 6k without having to tune it up any further. Feels fast enough to me!
By the way the +2 had a Crossflow in when I bought it, so had lost its Twincam decades ago.

Hi There

Interesting that you went for the ST170.

I am just putting a blacktop 2.0 together having just whipped the head off to inspect and lap the valves etc. I had considered an ST170 but was put off not by the variable intake valve timing arrangement, but the inlet manifold, which has a variable length design. Also I would want to use the standard ECU and I am unsure about a couple of aspects of that. If I could use the standard ECU I think I might source an ST170 and have a play with it. I do have another plus 2 that it may well go in.

They also seem easier to find than a half decent blacktop for similar or less money also. Mind you I wonder if most have been thrashed due to the nature of the car they came with.

All the best

Berni

[berni29]

I haven't posted for a while and as I've just spotted this on my laptop I thought I post.

Hopefully I've uploaded the file properly as I haven't posted photographs before.

Hi There

Looks like a lovely car. I am planning to paint one of my plus 2's over Christmas and have decided to go for cream, which should be a little more yellow than the Cirrus white yours appears to be.

All the best

Berni

[gordy7]

Thanks for the kind comment, look forward to seeing your car when its painted.

I've booked a rolling road session at Emerald (they are not far from where I live) for mid January. I have a current BHP print for the car showing 130bhp but I think its running on a standard set up type map so hoping to get an improvement of not only bhp but overall performance.

Looking forward to that.....

[berni29]

Thanks for the kind comment, look forward to seeing your car when its painted.

I've booked a rolling road session at Emerald (they are not far from where I live) for mid January. I have a current BHP print for the car showing 130bhp but I think its running on a standard set up type map so hoping to get an improvement of not only bhp but overall performance.

Looking forward to that.....

Hi

I keep looking at your car, and I think I am going to go for very similar look. No pin-striping or side chrome, just the bottom lip of the sills painted black. i was hoping to avoid buying some minilites but I can see from looking at yours that they are just so "right" that nothing else will do in that rim size. In my head I was thinking black with a polished rim, but actually the silver and white (or cream in my case) just looks too good.

Rolling road tuning can make a big difference. I've only ever had it done on a Porsche but it transformed the low speed tractability of the car. Well worth the money in my case.

Here is my car parked outside the spray booth. I should be starting on it in a couple of days.

All the best

Berni

[gordy7]

Bernie,

My car does look like it's riding 'high' but that is a trait of Spyder cars, however read Syderboy comments about the tyre profile increase from 60 to 65 which makes perfect sense to me. When new tyres are due (or funds allow) I'll be taking up his advise.

My car is an off white, possibly 'Old English White'. I didn't put the car together and I don't think there's any reference to paint colour in the paperwork I have with the car....

[Spyder fan]

Bernie,

My car does look like it's riding 'high' but that is a trait of Spyder cars, however read Syderboy comments about the tyre profile increase from 60 to 65 which makes perfect sense to me. When new tyres are due (or funds allow) I'll be taking up his advise.

My car is an off white, possibly 'Old English White'. I didn't put the car together and I don't think there's any reference to paint colour in the paperwork I have with the car....

Merry Christmas

Who the feck is Syderboy?

14 inch wheels with 185/65 profile tyres = almost perfect wheel arch gaps once the car has settled after a few thousand miles use.
Spyder were one of the few “specialists “ to take a risk and invest in producing replacement chassis back in the 1980’s when there was a shortage of “official” parts whatever the reason. Their reward was a threatened lawsuit for copying the frankly unavailable item from Gartrac. So they re-designed a dimensionally identical but technically different replacement chassis that some including myself consider to be superior. Fast forward into the 1990’s and the first official Spyder Zetec conversion was born on the back of a customer saying wtf when told how much it would cost to rebuild his Lotus twincam and 4 speed gearbox. You could buy new crate Zetec engines for less than £800 and the 5 speed MT75 gearboxes and Granada diffs were a few quid down the local scrapper. So they got all the parts, cobbled them together and made it work for a lot less than it would have cost to restore the original stuff. The result was a fun car that actually was quite a bit quick for the 1990’s, it was a bit crude, but who cared? It did get a bit more refined in the 2000’s but historical “mistakes’ were repeated in that the exhaust manifold was designed to allow for the the starter motor being on the wrong side, this gave issues with ground clearance which was amplified by the wrong tyre size (185/60/14) which should always have been 185/65/14 a whole inch taller ! Later cars got a gearbox with the starter motor on the correct side which should have resulted in a redesign of the manifold, this didn’t happen until customers made their own changes (yours truly).
Spyder are a small company with limited resources, so I cut them a lot of slack, especially when they actually listen to me and other customers to make changes and design stuff that works. I drove the re-design of the exhaust manifold helped by John Pelly, the tyres I worked out myself, the electric pop up headlight units were my adaptation of those done by others but linked to Spyders failsafe system, lots of those have been sold worldwide.

[berni29]

Hi Alan

That is a very interesting post.

I remember buying a crate Zetec or very little money back in about 2007/8 or so when I first though about doing a Zetec conversion. Sadly those days are well over. I recently paid a short £400 for an average one that ended up needing new exhaust valves, but that is what they go for, and they are still not all that easy to find. At least not for me. Probably the ST170 is a better bet, but again, hard to find in good condition.

As for the ride height of my newly aquired Zetec chassis I do hope that the new exhaust manifold design coupled with one of the Retroford (or similar) shallow alloy sumps will allow for a more "standard" ride height. I guess an oval centre pipe might help also? As for wheel size with the Sierra hubs and brakes I have decided to go for 165/75/14 tyre on a 5.5j rim so that I can have a very close to standard track width along with an almost identical height and rolling circumference to the 165/82/13 original. I cannot bear the incorrect offset look. Its a pet hate of mine and not just with Lotuses so for me that pretty much rules out the wider tyres, and means I will have to have some wheels made up with bespoke offsets.

All the best

Berni

[Spyder fan]

Berni,
Merry Christmas.

Most of the grounding issues in normal use were down to the exhaust manifold kissing the tarmac on bumpy roads, couple that to speed humps and railway crossings and you very soon needed to drive defensively. Never had a problem with the sump, but the retro Ford and Raceline items look nice bits of kit.

The design of the manifold exposed it to the full up and down movement of the suspension, a simple redesign to make it take the traditional route cured the problem by moving its lowest point well beyond the front wheels.. I use normal round tubing and have a centre silencer, its clean and free from road rash.

Appearance is a personal thing, I think most people agree they don’t like the raised look which is a result of wrong choice of tyre diameter and uprated spring rates. Once the springs have settled after a few thousand miles it gets a bit better, add taller tyres and it’s far more acceptable.

The track doesn’t bother me in that I have never noticed it being significantly different from standard.